HBP. Killing DD

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 181627

> > -zgirnius:
> > Dumbledore's tone of voice truly frightened Harry, which I
> > think reflects genuine fear/concern by Dumbledore, <snip>
> > 
> > Having read DH, we now know that the argument in the Forest,
> > which occured many months after Snape agreed to Dumbledore's 
> > plan, was about several things including Snape's reluctance
> > to go through with the plan.
> > 
> > <snip> In fact, we are never shown Snape agreeing to pass the
> > message on to Harry. So I think Dumbledore was in some doubt
> > what Snape would choose, and also may have been asking in part,
> > for Snape to remember and stick with, the whole plan - kill
> > him, and then protect the students, and then wait for the right 
> > time to tell Harry about the soul bit.
> > 
> > The first step was crucial - if Snape failed to kill Dumbledore,
> > he might not be alive to do the rest.

> Carol responds:
> <snip>
> I read the desperation in DD's voice as fear that the 
> Unbreakable Vow will kick in and Snape will be dead,
> ending what's left of Dumbledore's plan.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> It was a terrible decision, and the expression of hatred and 
> revulsion shows how hard it was for him to make,
> <snip> 
> Snape's survival was as crucial as Harry's. 

Mike:
I'm sensing here a concensus that Dumbledore's pleadings were for 
Severus to follow through on the plan. You've both expressed the 
opinion that Dumbledore wasn't yet sure that Snape had agreed to
the infamous plan. Yes, Carol, I think it was a difficult decision,
but I don't think it was fear for his own soul. That seems to be 
resolved in favor of no murder, no tearing. 

Believe it or not, I think Snape was actually agonizing over 
whether he was going to agree to the killing of Lily's son. I 
know, me acknowledging a favorable reading of Snape's character, 
shocking, isn't it? But I'm giving Snape credit for being 
unconcerned for his own life or soul and being torn between his 
vow to protect Harry and Dumbledore's plan to get Harry killed.

The irony is that by killing DD here, in accordance with DD's 
wishes, he was being put in the near impossible situation of trying 
to get Harry to believe him forevermore. So following this part of 
the plan made completing the last, key part of the plan as difficult 
as it could be.



> Carol:
> IMO, time was of the essence. It wasn't just a matter of someone 
> else killing DD and becoming master of the wand without knowing 
> it (unlike Snape, who was giving him the death he chose).

Mike:
This is the other part I wanted to address. Dumbledore has already 
been disarmed by Draco before Snape or the DEs get to the tower. So 
the passing of the Elder Wand to a new master has occurred, nothing 
Snape or the DEs can do about that now, short of killing Draco. 

At one time, I wondered if DD realized that Draco's Expelliarmus 
meant the mastership had passed to him, but I think even in his 
weakened state he would have realized the significance of being 
disarmed of the EW against his will.

It appears that Snape was unaware of the Elder Wand part of the 
plan, iirc Dumbledore never told him that. In Dumbledore's defense, 
I doubt he could have predicted all the things that happened 
causing Voldemort to go in pursuit and to acquire the EW. I suppose 
DD feared that Snape would be tempted by the "Deathstick". Still, 
it was a quite nasty trick to play on Snape without giving him full 
disclosure.

Aside: Did Harry's victory over Voldemort in the graveyard mean that 
Voldy's Fawkes-core wand transferred it's allegiance to Harry? 
Voldemort only *tried* to use that wand on Harry one time after that,
and that AK was blocked by an Albus animated statue. If, instead, 
Harry had raised his own wand and tried an Expelliarmus, would he 
have gotten the same results he got at the end of DH?



> Carol, more or less agreeing with zgirnius but factoring in the 
> UV as the main reason for DD's sense of urgency

Mike, agreeing with both Zgirnius and Carol and wanting to add the 
Elder Wand into the equation