Wand Lore / Luna / Alchemy

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 181650

> Carol:
> Conditions may be bad at Hogwarts thanks to the Carrows, but there are
> only two of them (and they're both pretty stupid). Imagine how much
> worse it would be if Travers or Yaxley were headmaster and brought in
> their DE friends to "teach" all the subjects. Macnair for COMC, for
> example, and Bellatrix for Transfiguration. IMO, Snape does the best
> he can under very difficult conditions. Under a loyal DE, they would
> have been much worse. (And, BTW, I don't think that the Carrows have
> "free rein" (note spelling). 

a_svirn:
Um. Noted <bangs her head on desk>. 

> Carol:
I think they're kept in check by
> McGonagall (and possibly, subtly, by Snape himself; Snape, being
> Snape, would be concerned about the students being prepared for their
> OWLs and NEWTs). If they truly had free rein, they'd be attacking the
> other teachers and controlling the curriculum, which clearly is not
> happening. (And even Amycus Carrow has managed to teach something
> useful actually related to DADA; Crabbe, Goyle, and Draco can all cast
> Disillusionment Charms, which must mean that all the seventh years
> have been taught that particular spell.) 

a_svirn:
Well, obviously Snape was in a position to so something every now and
then. Not much, however. Students were routinely tortured in his
school, and if they weren't killed outright it wasn't because he
didn't let the Carrows to do so.  It was simply because Voldemort
didn't give the Carrows a licence to kill them. Basically what I am
saying is that his main task was to help Harry, and he would have to
do whatever it took to achieve it. And to allow absolutely any sacrifice. 

> Carol:
> I agree that it doesn't make much sense, but DD must have either had
> something in mind or trusted to Snape to find a way, no doubt
> involving his Patronus. Snape could, if necessary, Petrify Harry and
> force him to listen. I do wonder what DD (and JKR) had in mind, but a
> way could have been found. Ideally, Portrait!DD could confide in
> McGonagall and have her lead Harry to the Pensieve, where he would
> explore Snape's memory (or memories) in her presence. But I don't
> think that Harry would have killed Snape on sight. He had the
> opportunity to do so in "Flight of the Prince" and didn't do so then.
> Besides, Snape can easily outduel him. <snip>

a_svirn:
It would be, to put it mildly, foolhardy for Dumbledore to rely on
that. I mean, he could easily outduel Draco, and yet... And when you
take into account the fickleness of wands in general and the Elder
wand in particular... I really don't see what he could possibly be
thinking of.

> > 
> Carol earlier:
> > > Just how DD intended for Snape to avoid being killed when LV
> discovered that he was the supposed master of the Elder Wand is
> unclear, but he may have been counting on timing--Harry finding and
> destroying the Horcruxes before LV solved the mystery of the Elder
> Wand, obtained it, and realized why it wasn't working for him (which,
> BTW, is absurd--it worked just fine).
> > 
> > a_svirn:
> > That explanation doesn't really work when you consider that he did 
> > everything in his power to distract Harry from the Horcrux Hunt.
> 
> Carol:
> But if Harry went after the Elder Wand, there wouldn't be a problem
> for Snape, would there? 

a_svirn:
Wouldn't it? Considering that Snape, according to the plan was to have
the wand? I'd say it would give Harry all the excuse he needed to go
after Snape and visit what he considered a just retribution on his
head. (And considering that he tortured Amycus for a trivial insult, I
really would rather not to contemplate what form this retribution
could take.) 

> Carol:
Voldemort wouldn't find the wand because Harry
> would have it, and he wouldn't know that he wasn't its master, so
> Snape would be in no danger. In any case, as I've said before, if
> Harry hadn't revealed his identity by using the Expelliarmus, which,
> in turn, led to Harry's wand going off and destroying Lucius Malfoy's
> wand, Voldemort wouldn't have set off when he did to find the Elder
> Wand. 

a_svirn:
Then again, he could anticipate that VOldemort would try to overcome
the twin-core connection.  And what better wand than the best of them
all? 


> Carol earlier:
> > the implication that he wanted Snape to have the wand (but
> presumably not use it or be its master), 
> > 
> > a_svirn:
> > Then why have it at all? It seems to be a dangerous possession even
> at best of times. To have it without using it would be like walking 
> around with a big target painted on your back. 
> 
> Carol:
> Not necessarily. If the wand were stripped of its powers, Snape could
> just hand it to Voldemort (protecting himself if necessary with
> Occlumency) and tell him that he took it from the dead DD. 

a_svirn:
Yes, necessarily.  As soon as Voldemort realised that the wand didn't
work for him as it should, he would surely kill Snape. Actually, as
things played out he didn't have to kill him – it was a mistake on
Voldemort's part. He had to kill Draco instead. But if everything had
gone according to Dumbledore's plan, Snape would have died for certain. 

 
> > Carol:
> > the unexpected events that speeded up LV's hunt for the Elder Wand,
> and, especially, DD's need for Snape to deliver that message to Harry,
> which could only be done if he were alive, indicates to me that he
> didn't expect Snape to die. 
> > 
> > a_svirn:
> > And yet had he been alive, Harry would have not been likely to
> listen to him.  
> 
> Carol:
> Harry trusted the doe Patronus and knew that it had led him to the
> Sword of Gryffindor. And Harry listened to Sirius Black and Lupin in
> PoA. I think if he knew that Snape's Patronus was the doe, he would
> have listened. And Snape would have found a way. His plan to deliver
> the Sword of Gryffindor worked perfectly, after all.

a_svirn:
Dumbledore couldn't have known it. In fact he didn't even know about
Snape's plan. 
a_svirn.