Wand Lore / Luna / Alchemy

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 181691

 > Magpie:
> > Sometimes it's easier than innocent people think. The only reason 
> > Harry hadn't killed someone by the time Dumbledore died was 
because 
> > Snape happened to be nearby with the secret fix-cure. Harry was
> using  the exact same curse on Snape.
> 
> Pippin:
> Sure, and Draco's stomp might've made Harry drown in his own blood, 
or
> driven a fragment of bone into Harry's brain and killed him. But 
it's
> not easy to kill a person by breaking the nose unless you know how.

Magpie:
I was not talking about freak accidents, I was talking about things 
much more obviously violent. Draco isn't a killer either, but the 
only thing that kept him from being a murderer of Ron and Katie was 
that Snape intervened, because the poison was a lot more serious 
about killing than Draco himself was. Harry was ready to use 
Sectumsempra on Snape and had already almost killed somebody with 
that. Because Sectumsempra was more serious about its purpose than 
Harry was. Neither boy could really be said to not know how to kill.

Pippin:
> Killing a person with a knife, or even a sword isn't that easy 
either,
> especially going up against a trained opponent. Let's get real--
Harry
> had about as much chance of beating Snape with sectum sempra as I do
> of beating the world heavyweight champion in a fist fight. The race
> isn't always to the swift -- but that's the way to bet.

Magpie:
If Harry lashed out at Snape in the right way it's possible it could 
happen. Dumbledore left that very much open to chance with the 
situation he'd left. 

Pippin:
> 
> Harry has never tried to kill anyone in a sneak attack. He's not a
> cold-blooded killer. He did not methodically practice using sectum
> sempra, much less avada kedavra,the way he drilled with expelliarmus
> and stunning spells. He may have wanted to kill Snape in his rage,
> immediately after Dumbledore's death, but as we saw, rage is to
> vengeance what alcohol is to sex: it increases desire  but impedes
> performance <g>. 

Magpie:
So Dumbledore did leave Snape open to a possible deadly attack by 
Harry, but you think the fact that Harry would have to be really 
angry would protect Snape? Doesn't sound like Dumbledore really 
deserves much praise for that set up. Far too many things could go 
wrong there.


> > Magpie:
> > But this is Voldemort. Of course he would kill him just to be 
sure.
> I  would never expect Voldemort to just stun the person and keep 
them 
>  alive. He'd all be all about killing him just for the symbolic 
value.
> 
> 
> Pippin:
> Then he'd have killed his faithless followers, including Snape, as
> soon as he returned to his body. 

Magpie:
Obviously there's more reason to symbolically kill the previous owner 
of the Elder Wand than to kill all of his followers at once as soon 
as he returned. If I wasn't surprised at all that Voldemort killed 
Snape it doesn't seem like Dumbledore should have been.

Pippin:
Voldemort may  kill anyone in a fit
> of rage, but he doesn't generally kill his henchmen as long as they
> are useful to him. He doesn't give a flying fig about symbolism 
except
> when he's playing to an audience. We might expect Voldemort to 
behave
> like a  cliche evil overlord and kill just to establish how nasty he
> is, but Dumbledore didn't know he was dealing with a fictional
> character. He could only judge Voldemort based on Voldemort's own 
past
> actions.

Magpie:
First, many pages of HBP were devoted to reminding us just how 
important symbolism is to Voldemort--and that's not even the only 
time it comes up. Voldemort is his own audience. Second, Voldemort 
certainly does kill henchmen when they are still useful to him. He 
weighs their usefulness against the reasons for killing them. I can't 
believe Dumbledore wouldn't see Snape's being the master of the Elder 
Wand weighting him more on the "kill" side based on Voldemort's past 
actions--not Voldemort being fictional.

Pippin: 
> If Dumbledore's plan had worked, I think Snape would simply have
> presented the Elder Wand to his master like the broomstick of the
> Wicked Witch of the West, and Dumbledore would have been delighted 
to
> explain, in some posthumous manner, that it was powerless because he
> had willingly accepted death. No need to mention his little
> arrangement with Snape at all.

Magpie:
Then Dumbledore didn't know Voldemort very well or hadn't paid 
attention to his past actions. 

-m