Tom Riddle and the RoR (Was: Dumbledore, Grindelwald, and the Deathstick)

[zanooda2]

No: HPFGUIDX 181716

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Zara" <zgirnius at ...> wrote:

> There is also some possible timeline evidence. Tom made the 
> diary at sixteen, to complete his noble work. This was his 
> opening of the Chamber, fifth year, so while this is never 
> stated, it is reasonable to suppose he made the Diary Horcrux 
> right then, when Myrtle's death made it necessary to stop.


zanooda:

Oh yeah, this is most probably how it happened :-). But I want to 
point out that we still don't know how Horcruxes are created and 
whether it must be done right after a murder or it can be done later. 
JKR said she was thinking about giving this information in the 
encyclopedia and hinted that the proccess was really disgusting 
(Pottercast transcript), but for now we don't know. Maybe LV made a 
Horcrux out of the diary later than his 5th year.

For instance, JKR said during that Web chat last July that LV created 
the ring Horcrux using his father's murder. OTOH, according to DD, 
after making a Horcrux out of the ring LV "did not want to wear it 
anymore" (HBP 504). This means that when LV was wearing the ring 
while talking to Slughorn, it was not yet a Horcrux.

Of course, DD can be wrong and LV wore the Horcrux on his finger at 
school, but if he is *not* wrong, this would mean that Horcruxes are 
not necessarily made directly after murders, and the diary could be 
turned into a Horcrux much later than you say.


> Zara: 

> Just putting in the memories would not have been enough for 
> the stated purpose of 'completing the work'. According to 
> Dumbledore, it was the soul bit that alloowed the Diary 
> to do its work.


zanooda:

I'm not so sure. The soul bit in the diary enabled it to possess an 
innocent and unwilling kid, to *make* him/her open the Chamber, but 
for a willing kid memory alone would be enough to do the same thing. 
If, for example, Lucius gave the diary to Draco, who *wanted* the 
Chamber open, Draco wouldn't need to be possessed. The Memory!Diary 
could show him where the entrance to the Chamber was and how to open 
it - no need for a soul bit. He would have to say the word "open" in 
Parseltongue, but we know now that it would not be a problem - if Ron 
could do it, Draco could do it :-).


> Zara:

> The ring was taken from Morfin the summer after fifth year, 
> and the conversation with Slughorn is after that point, since 
> Tom is wearing the ring.


Right, but we don't know if it was already a Horcrux at that point.



zanooda, who just realized, after rereading her post, that it has 
absolutely nothing to do with the original topic ... :-)