Tom Riddle and the RoR - when

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 181765

talamariam wrote:
>
> I am a long time lurker here, and often fascinated by the depth of
> some of you (justcarol comes to mind!, Mike et al) analyzing HP
books. <snip>

Carol responds:
Thank you! I do go into a bit of detail sometimes! Please call me
Carol, BTW.
 
talamariam:
> When do you think TR put the diadem into the ROR? My take is during
his visit to DD for the DADA post.  TR only got his filthy hands on
the diadem after he visited Albania, hence the period.
> 
> Why the ROR?  Because TR knew about it (during his Hogwart days),
and it is convenient for his brief visit to DD's office.  We know that
the ROR is near DD's office, actually JKR repeatedly tells us about
this small item.
> 
> So the reason TR chose the ROR is not exactly 'deep logical thinking'
> (whatever this means :P ) -- it fits his profile very well.
> 
> He wanted to keep something in Hogwarts, the only place he 'loved.'
> He wanted to 'thumb his nose' on the great DD, by keeping it in plain
> sight near DD's office. And I am sure that TR is convinced he will
> come back to rule Hogwarts one day (which he indeed did!).
> 
> Indeed - the ROR is a very good place for TR's purpose. It was only
> coincidence that relates HP to the diadem (sigh! I really agree that
JKR uses too many -- way too many -- coincidences on this story ).
<snip>

Carol responds:

Agreed about the coincidences, especially in DH.

However, I'm not sure about Voldemort's hiding the tiara in the RoR
when he applied for the DADA post. First, IIRC, the RoR is on the same
floor as the entrance to Dumbledore's office, but it's not close by.
Harry tells Tonks in HBP that she's in the wrong part of the castle
when she appears out of nowhere in front of the RoR and mentions
wanting to talk to DD. (Anyone besides me think that she was wearing
an Invisibility Cloak? She does the same thing in Hogsmeade when Harry
is throttling Mundungus.)

Also, I don't think he would have brought the tiara to Hogwarts to
hide it when he had a job interview. Is he supposed to hide it under
his cloak in broad daylight? He'd have had to drop it off at the RoR
on the way to the interview, and to do that, he'd have needed to know
about the existence of the RoR already (it would be too much of a
coincidence for him to find it for the first time on the day of the
DADA interview), which means, he'd have had to find it as a student. 
Only he didn't, so far as we know, hide any of the other Horcruxes
there, so what would he have used it for?

We know that he found out about the Ravenclaw diadem as a student, and
apparently, he already knew how to make a Horcrux. (the diary and
possibly the ring Horcrux were created while he was still at school.)
We know that he thought (illogically) that he was the only one who
knew about that room, which doesn't help much.

On the other side of the argument, we know that his looks are altered
by making Horcruxes and that they hadn't changed much when he robbed
and murdered Hepzibah Smith, which suggests that he had only made one
or two Horcruxes at that point, whereas when we see him in the DADA
interview, his features are blurred, which suggests that he's created
at least two more (the ring and the locket) at that point.
Nagini!crux, of course, comes much later. The question is, when did he
create the Ravenclaw Horcrux? If he found it during the summer holiday
between his sixth and seventh years (going to Albania and murdering an
Albanian peasant for lack of a significant victim), which would have
provided the perfect opportunity to hide the Horcrux while he was
still at school, why were his features so little altered when he
worked for Borgin and Burke? (A little paler, a little thinner, red
eeyes that glowed red when he was feeling greed or the impulse to
kill--that doesn't seem sufficient alteration for three Horcruxes,
does it?)

The blurred, waxy features and permanently red eyes of the DADA
interview, in contrast, indicate that he's been dabbling extensively
in self-altering Dark Magic. He must have already created not only the
diary, ring, cup, and locket Horcruxes, but also the Ravenclaw Horcrux
since the DADA appointment is his last opportunity to hide the thing
in the RoR, but that raises the question of why his appearance is
again changed when he returns for VW1. If he hasn't yet killed the
Potters and accidentally put a soul bit into Harry and hasn't yet made
Nagini into a Horcrux, why would he look more snakelike during VW1
than he does during the DADA interview? (I'm going by the face in the
back of Quirrell's head, which predates the Nagini Horcrux unless DD
is wrong and the absence of reaction to LV's altered appearance--as
opposed to his return to "life" by the DEs in the graveyard.)

If you're confused as to what I'm arguing, it's because I'm also
confused. It makes more sense for him to have hidden the Ravenclaw
Horcrux while he was still at Hogwarts, but appearance suggests that
he hadn't yet created it, so he must have hidden it later, on the way
to the DADA interview, which would mean that he already knew about the
RoR but hadn't used it for anything. And if we look at the alterations
in his appearance, the snakelike appearance makes no sense unless
there was an additional Horcrux between the DADA interview and
Godric's Hollow. But if the only available Horcrux is the Ravenclaw
one, how could he have hidden it if he hadn't made it yet?

It's possible that he didn't look snakelike during VW1, but if that's
the case, wouldn't the DEs have been in some doubt as to his identity?

Carol, now almost wishing she hadn't posted as she's not sure what she
thinks