The Slytherins and Cedric, list reaction to DD, and favorite DH moments

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 180356

Since we still have a five-post limit and I'm on my fourth, I'm going
to do a Catlady-style post here, combining wholly unrelated points
that I want to respond to.

Alla wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/180316

> I do NOT think that Slytherin as house was redeemed, you know?

> I think individuals of this house were redeemed and possible return
of SOME slytherins students could be in line with it or not.

> Maybe it were same Slyths who stood for Cedric, who knows? They
would have been of age, no?

Carol responds:

I just wanted to mention that *all* of Slytherin House, in fact, every
person present, including teachers and the students from Durmstrang,
stood for Cedric (which is one reason that some of  us interpret as
evidence that Slytherin House isn't all bad):
"They did it, all of them; the benches scraped as *everyone in the
Hall* stood, and raised their goblets, and echoed in one loud, low,
rumbling voice, 'Cedric Diggory!'" (GoF Am. ed. 721). Those words
bring tears to my eyes even now.

But many Slytherins, including Draco and his two cronies, refused to
stand and toast Harry as they had Cedric. "But through a gap in the
standing figures, Harry saw that Malfoy, Crabbe. Goyle, and many of
the other Slytherins had remained defiantly in their seats, their
goblets untouched" (723). Just why "many" but not all the Slytherins
refused to stand and toast Harry as they had Cedric is not stated
because, of course, we're seeing from Harry's point of view. For all
we know, they still regard Cedric as "the real Hogwarts champion."
(Or, as Harry thinks at one point in HBP, they hate him because he's
beaten them so many times at Quidditch.) Nor do we know which
Slytherins stood and toasted Harry since Harry (and therefore the
narrator) doesn't know any other Slytherins by name at that point
except Pansy, who isn't mentioned (but given her feelings for Draco
and JKR's loathing of Pansy, I think we can safely guess that Pansy
stayed in her seat.)

Susan McGee wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/180327

> it does seem that there have been a lot more posts focused on how DD
is evil and how Ms. Rowling should be quiet since she talked about his
being in love with Gellert Grindelvald.

Carol responds:
As you may recall, the backlash against Dumbledore began almost
immediately after the list reopened to allow posts on DH. Some posters
had predicted an extreme version on Puppetmaster Dumbledore, but  I,
for one, still saw him as flawed but essentially noble. I defended
(and still defend) his reasons for leaving Harry with the Dursleys,
for example. It was fascinating to find that he'd flirted with
controlling Muggles "for the greater good" and been a close friend of
Grindelwald's in his youth, but what was repellant for me (at least
until "King's Cross" gave me back the Dumbledore I knew and loved--and
I emphatically don't mean had a crush on) and still evidently repels
many posters on this list is the extent of his manipulativeness.
Voldemort calls Harry "Dumbledore's puppet," and though Harry does
*choose* to go after the Horcruxes (and reject the Hallows) and does
*choose* (after visiting Snape's memories in the Pensieve) to reject
vengeance and sacrifice himself, the cold-bloodedness of DD's plan and
his willingness to use people for "the greater good" is chilling.

The first response of this sort that I can find is Colebiancardi's,
which contains a longish paragraph beginning, "Don't get me started on
Dumbledore's manipulations."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172225

Later posts, still predating JKR's revelation about DD's sexual
orientation (which posters are objecting to because it isn't in the
books, just imposed on readers after the fact, even though JKR herself
says its relevant only to DD's "infatuation" with GG, which is
otherwise explained by DD himself in the book), are much more
virulently anti-Dumbledore (or, in some cases, approving of DD's and
even exaggerating DD's manipulative tactics). This disenchantment with
or disapprobation of Dumbledore stems from DH itself and has nothing
to do with JKR's claim that she always imagined him as gay. As far as
I can see, what she always imagined him as is a cold intellectual who
once put his own dreams of glory and power above his responsibility
for his younger brother and sister. (Question: Why wasn't the
ambitious and egotistical little Albus placed in Slytherin, aside from
the fact that JKR wanted him to be a Gryffindor?)

In a message that I can't find the link to, Pippin wrote:

> I am not going to forget Snape crying his eyes out over that letter
and tearing the photograph in two, nor clinging to Harry's robes as he
 tries to hang on to life long enough to complete his mission. I am
not going to forget Harry reaching out to pat Dumbledore's arm and
glad to find that he could. And I am not going to forget Harry telling
Albus Severus that it doesn't matter where the Hat puts him.
>
> Anyone else want to talk about unforgettable DH moments?

Carol responds:
To be as succinct as possible, my favorite DH moments are Fred and
George transformed into Harry saying "We're identical!"; Kreacher
whanging Mundungus on the head with that saucepan; Ron retrieving the
Sword of Gryffindor, rescuing Harry, and symbolically destroying his
own demons as he destroys the Horcrux; Harry looking into Snape's eyes
(sob!); Neville heroically slaying Nagini; Percy abjectly and
sincerely apologizing for being, in Fred's words, a "Ministry-loving,
family-disowning, power-hungry moron"; and Harry naming his second son
Albus Severus. I'm sure there are others, including parts of "The
Prince's Tale" (Ceridwen, I think gave my favorite Snape quote of DH
in the favorite quote thread) and the vindication of Regulus, but this
list gives a fair sampling of moments that made me laugh, cry, or
shout for joy. (Bathilda!Nagini made me jump out of my skin, but I
don't count that as a favorite moment. Brrr! I hate Nagini!)

Carol, who still loves the books, including DH, and certainly doesn't
"hate" JKR despite being somewhat annoyed with her at the moment