Occlumency lessons WAS: Slytherins come back WAS: Re: My Most Annoying Charact

[Annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 180361

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lealess" <lealess@> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > To put this another way, and to echo Magpie's lengthy comment, I 
do 
> > not remember JKR lying about what Harry physically saw or felt.  
> > Harry saw what he saw.  He felt what he felt.  He wasn't 
> > hallucinating.  His *interpretations* were incorrect, not his 
> > eyesight or ability to feel pain.
> > 
> > How do we know this?  JKR came back later to correct the mistaken 
> > interpretations with fuller explanations -- or at least, she 
should 
> > have done, in the text.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Not always and not as far as I remember. Yes, I agree with you 
> Harry's ability to feel something is often correct and when Snape 
> attacks him on first lesson, he does just that - attacks him on the 
> first lesson. Let's put aside whether Snape hated him - I believe 
he 
> is correct, but this is an interpretation.
> 
> Fast forward to Occlumency lessons - Harry feels pain, doesn't he?
> 
> Do we ever find out if Snape had anything to do whatsoever with 
that 
> pain? Do we ever find out if Harry had pain from the lesson, if he 
> had pain at all or was it all in his mind?
> 
> I mean I vehemently argued in the past that Snape could be 
> deliberately opening his mind to Voldemort, but in light of all the 
> information would he really do that?
> 
> How exactly was this information corrected?
>

Annemehr:

Didn't Dumbledore wrap that up in his OoP wrap-up speech in ch. 37?  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Snape stopped giving me Occlumency lessons!" Harry snarled.  "He 
threw me out of his office!"

"I am aware of it," said Dumbledore heavily.  "I have already said 
that it was a mistake for me not to teach you myself, though I was 
sure, at the time, that nothing could have been more dangerous than 
to open your mind even further to Voldemort while in my presence --"

"Snape made it worse, my scar always hurt worse after lessons with 
him --"  Harry remembered Ron's thoughts on the subject and plunged 
on.  "How do you know he wasn't trying to soften me up for Voldemort, 
make it easier for him to get inside my --"

"I trust Severus Snape," said Dumbledore simply.  "But I forgot -- 
another old man's mistake -- that some wounds run too deep for the 
healing.  I thought Professor Snape could overcome his feelings about 
your father -- I was wrong."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, one answer we got:  Occlumency lessons did in fact open Harry's 
mind further to Voldemort, and that's why DD wouldn't give them. And 
when the scar link was open to Voldemort, there was pain.

Of course, this raises the further question as to why Harry wasn't 
informed that this would happen as a result of the lessons.  
Dumbledore certainly knew.  Did Snape?  We are never told, though we 
know he certainly never told Harry.  However, if LV could sense 
Harry's Occlumency teacher during lessons (which would be why DD 
wouldn't be the teacher), then it would give Snape some sort of cover 
with LV -- he could tell *him* Harry was being deliberately softened 
up under the guise of trying to learn the opposite.

And of course, certain Puppetmaster!DD believers would have said that 
was DD's intent as well...

As far as Harry's perceptions are concerned, though, they were 
accurate all along.  Snape's Occlumency lessons did make him worse.

Annemehr

P.S.  For what it's worth, I heartily agree with the posters who say 
there's no way to read Slytherin students into the group of adults 
following Slughorn into battle, without doing violence to the way we 
communicate.

P.P.S. I'd lay odds we can expect JKR to re-edit the series with 
corrections and clarifications some day...well, not soon, but 
eventually.