Occlumency lessons WAS: Slytherins come back

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 180420

> Annemehr:
> 
> Well, I mulled it over, overnight...

Mike:
Me too, Anne. :D

> Annemehr:
> 
> The way I see it, the phrase "open your mind even further to 
> Voldemort WHILE in my presence"  denotes the joining of two events 
> in time:  1)opening Harry's mind and 2)being with Dumbledore.  And 
> joining them in the sentence explaining why DD didn't teach Harry 
> implies they *could* be separate, and in fact *were* separate, in 
> the alternative situation DD did in fact set up: Harry's occlumency
> lessons with Snape opened his mind further to Voldemort WHILE NOT 
> in the presence of Dumbledore.

Mike:
While I agree, your interpretation of the passage in OotP seems 
logical, I'm not sure you have Dumbledore's reasons correct.
Let me explain.

Many of us wondered if the "scar connection" was a two-way street. 
Interpreting DD's words would tend to make one come away with that 
conclusion. That would also put Snape in an awkward position if 
Voldemort was sitting in on Harry's Occlumency lessons with Snape. 
This lead to the theories that Snape set up the Pensieve 
eavesdropping incident, to stop these useless lessons before 
something damning of Snape's got exposed to the linked Voldemort. Of 
course, the DDM!Snape-ers wondered why DD would put Snape in this 
position.

We knew the connection was open throughout OotP, then Voldemort 
closes it off in HBP, by Occlumency according to Dumbledore. But the 
connection is re-opened in DH. Why? I don't know, no explanation was 
given, unless it was part of the whole parasitic thing growing 
stronger explanation. 

But, was the connection a two-way street? NO! Voldemort's eyes/mind 
have always been the camera and Harry's mind has always been the 
projection screen. That was the case throughout OotP and it was the 
case throughout DH. Voldemort was never shown to have seen what's 
going on with Harry, or where he is. If he could have seen through 
Harry, he would have been on Harry first in the "Seven Potters", 
would have seen that he was at 12 GP, was at the Ministry, where the 
camping trip took them, seen him captured and in the Malfoy dungeon, 
on and on. The connection was open during almost every one of these 
events, and yet Voldemort didn't know where Harry was.



So, where does that leave Dumbledore's explanation?


> Annemehr
> 
> See how they're imparting different information?  The way DD
> said it implies that opening Harry's mind is independent of DD's 
> presence.  I can't get anything else out of the phrase as DD says 
> it in the text, myself -- to me, it's still not ambiguous at all.

Mike:
Try this one, Anne. :) Dumbledore said he saw the shadow of Voldemort 
behind Harry's eyes after the Arthur-gets-bit episode. So when 
Dumbledore says "open your mind even further to Voldemort" was he 
referring to the soul bit or the newly embodied LV? 

I think it can be interpreted as opening/weakening Harry's mind for 
the soul piece to gain more control. Somehow, these soul pieces have 
some sense of self, they know where they come from and who their 
enemies are. Witness the Diary. Dumbledore could have been afraid of 
giving the soul piece more incentive to take over Harry's mind, if it 
perceived DD as trying to block it from connecting to the father 
ship. An incentive that it probably wouldn't have if Harry was being 
taught by Snape, a perceived ally.

If this was the case, the two-way connection to LV wasn't the reason 
for the lessons arraingements, and Snape was never in danger of being 
caught out by Voldemort. It was the danger from within Harry that 
Dumbledore was worried about. Furthermore, this makes Dumbledore 
wrong on two counts: 
1) Occlumency was never going to shut off the connection. The mind 
penetration was the condition, with the soul piece inside of Harry. 
The only way to block it was to remove the soul piece, not something 
Occlumency was going to do.
2) Harry's ability to see out of Voldemort's mind/eyes was both 
exploitable, as Harry used it in DH, and not a danger per se to 
Harry. Even if DD was referring to the parasite growing stronger, he 
was underestimating Harry's strength while at the same time extolling 
and counting on it, imo.

And we still wouldn't know if the lessons made Harry more suseptable 
to inputs from the embodied Voldemort.

What did I miss? I know I missed something, but can't for the life of 
me figure out what it is?

Mike