JKR's lesson on prejudice (was:Slytherins come back)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 180511

> Betsy Hp:
> I'm at work, so I can't do a full on text evaluation, but IIRC, 
> Draco entered Harry and Ron's compartment to attempt a 
reintroduction 
> since he realized their first meeting was a failure.  So it's a 
> fairly neutral Draco at this point.  But Harry's already decided he 
> doesn't like him, and part of that is from Hagrid's earlier 
statement 
> about Slytherin.  I'll also point out that the first attack in this 
> scene (IIRC) came from Ron laughing at Draco.

Alla:

And how do we know that Harry does not like Draco because of Hagrid's 
statement about Slytherin if Draco has not sorted to Slytherin yet?

I mean, because again IF he does not like Draco because of that at 
this point, it is prejudice, I agree with you. I mean I would agree 
because Harry did not witness the pureblood ideology yet, not because 
there is anything attractive in it.

But before the compartment meeting Harry listened to Draco's filth 
**twice** and of course formed his opinion already. Where do you see 
neutral Draco, I have no idea. I mean, I cannot compare Ron's 
laughing to what Draco said, but okay, if it was their first meeting, 
I could at least understand. Except it was not and Draco showed his 
mindset already.

Betsy Hp:
> Anyway, there were a lot of Romeo/Juliet sort of things going on 
> where it seemed apparent to me that the history of the WW was 
> affecting both boys.  I didn't expect Harry to behave any 
differently 
> of course.  He was an eleven year old child. 

Alla:

How would you expect Harry to behave then if he was not eleven year 
old child? Would you expect him to embrace Draco after the things he 
said about Hagrid and muggleborns folks? You know the bad kind of 
wizards, the lower kind?

I am in my thirties; I would tell you that I would not BOTHERED to 
deal with the person who would want to make friends with me by 
insulting my friend and my heritage. And when I say with the person 
who wants to make friends with me, I am giving Draco a HUGE benefit 
of the doubt, because I do not see how his behavior can be construed 
as making friends with Harry. I mean, it can be, but Harry is not a 
legilimency expert and what Draco says is snobbish and filthy as far 
as I am concerned.

So, again, I am at loss as to what was wrong with Harry's behavior. 
Not why you can understand his behavior, but how else he was supposed 
to behave as any decent normal kid would. IMO of course.

> Betsy Hp:
> Sorry, I thought I had.  To restate: I don't think Harry disliked 
> Draco because of WW prejudices in their first meeting.  That came 
> later when Hagrid explained that Harry's initial reaction to Draco 
> was correct.

Alla:

Okay.

Betsy Hp:
  I'd say Harry disliked Draco because Draco was too 
> confident.  A boy who knew that world and had parents who loved him 
> was too much for Harry, who was feeling quite weak and insecure at 
> the time.  

Alla:

So you think Draco's insults have nothing to do with Harry's dislike?

Basically because Draco was displaying his confident posture, that 
was the reason? Okay.

Betsy Hp:
Actually, it's a fairly classic recruitment scenario Harry 
> found him in.  It's no wonder he bought Hagrid's filth hook, 
> line, and sinker.  The Depression era was huge for the KKK.

Alla:

I am happy that he did not buy Draco's filth personally.



Montavilla47:
Hehe. Well, it isn't Prejudice so much as Pride, right? I'm 
headdesking
right now because I never realized the Harry/Draco = Elizabeth/Darcy
connection before.

No wonder people slash Harry/Draco!

I wonder if Jane Austen had produced Pride and Prejudice as a
serial novel if people would have been outraged when Elizabeth
got together with Darcy at the end instead of whatshisname.

And if anyone would have written fanfics in which Darcy was
conveniently killed off, or else shown to be a wife-beater....

Alla:

Yeah, I know people slash Harry/Draco, I read and enjoyed some 
stories myself. What I am disagreeing with is that some resemblance 
to this scenario somehow just had to come true in the books. And this 
is a general remark, but nowhere in the books had I seen that Draco 
and Harry were supposed to become best friends or something. I am not 
even talking about slash, LOL.

Heeee, and the difference I see between Elisabeth/Darcy is of course 
that Darcy is revealed as honorable man, while Draco is not, not to 
the same degree at least IMO.

I mean, does it have to be that when hero meets somebody who is bad, 
this guy just has to become his best friend? This is not a remark to 
you Montavilla, it is to some extent reply to Betsy, but more of her 
past arguments, not even this one, I think.

Can the main character meet someone whom he thinks is very bad and it 
turns out he is just not as bad, but bad enough? Does life always 
gives us these big reversals of human nature? Yeah, it is dramatic 
when it happens in literature, no I do not think it always has to 
happen in literature. No, I do not think anybody wrote that it should 
always happen. I am just going on tangent.


Yeah, I am pleased and happy that Draco did not turn out to have a 
heart of gold, why would he after growing up with Lucius? But he 
still loves his parents, sticks up by his friends, etc.

I mean, where in the books people see the idea that Harry and Draco 
had to become friends, beats me. The fact that they met as enemies? 
Well, that's because Draco represents the wrong ideological position, 
truly wrong and Harry represents what is truly right IMO. So no 
wonder they became an enemies. The fact that Harry said he would 
never be friends with Draco, well why cannot it be taken for what it 
was? That he never will be.

I mean we have remark about Snape adopting Harry too, did he ever?

Since they are kids, they indeed see only parts of themselves, but 
Harry I think judged spot on the part of Draco that he got to 
witness, the disgusting part IMO.

JMO,

Alla