Slytherins come back WAS: Re: My Most Annoying Character/Now Rowling's control

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 180540

> Betsy Hp:
> I think it was Sydney who described Voldemort as more a force of 
> nature or a monster than an actual antagonist for Harry.  He's not 
> a character we were supposed to look at for any kind of depth or 
> nuance (our peep into his childhood made that quite clear).

Mike:
I wasn't really interested in nuance from Voldemort, I just wanted to 
be scared of him throughout. We started with the he-who-must-not-be-
named in book one building up to his reincarnation in GoF (4). I was 
truly scared of Voldemort in the Graveyard scene, the build up worked 
for me. Now, this most scary being is officially and fully *back*.

And then he ... nothing! For two books he wasn't scary at all. He was 
out there somewhere. Those glimpses of him through Harry's connection 
were like watching sound bites on a news program. He hits a few of 
his DEs with Crucio, so what? They're DEs, they deserve it. Crucio 
isn't scary anymore either. Yes, the duel in the Mom with DD, was 
cool, but I only had a few seconds to be scared for Harry in that 
scene and then Dumbledore to the rescue. (BTW, I didn't buy Harry 
standing there dumbstruck after the Graveyard duel.)

The terror going on throughout Britain in HBP seemed to be 
perpetrated by the DEs and their allies (giants, werewolves, etc.). 
The scariest scene in DH, for me, was Nagini!Bathilda. Sure, 
Voldemort did the magic, but it was the snake that was scary and 
gross. I had two books (5 & 6) to get used to Voldemort being back, 
and I never saw him doing any prodigious feats of magic, something 
that would justify his immense and frightening reputation as the 
brilliant, uber powerful, evil wizard of the age.

I needed Voldemort to *be* that "force of nature", as Sydney put it, 
to justify the fear that he engendered in the WW. For me, LV didn't 
live up to his billing or his build up.


> Betsy Hp:
> So I assumed that the deep stuff would come from Harry's 
> interaction with the actual antagonists of his story: Slytherin.

Mike:
Would have been fine with me. It's what I expected too.



> Betsy Hp:
> <snipperino>
> So Voldemort didn't need to be all that interesting, but the way 
> to defeat him should have been.  That's where I was expecting 
> Harry to have to learn some life lessons, etc.  Instead, the 
> defeat of Voldemort *was* the story.  Which, you know, yawn.

Mike:
Voldemort's intelligence and magical abilities needed to be more 
interesting than they were shown to be, imo. I needed to know that 
the Horcruxes weren't the only reason why he was still alive. His 
ability to fly without a broom wasn't enough. 

He was already a powerfully magical wizard when he entered Hogwarts. 
But he supposedly travelled the world, "consorting with the worst of 
our kind". What did he learn? Avada Kedavra, Crucio, Imperius? That's 
not the way I read it. Where were these great feats of magic, those 
indicators of why he was impossible for Harry to defeat? 

Then those "life's lessons" would have been important for Harry to 
learn. Then Harry would have to come up with a unique way of 
defeating Voldemort. Instead, we get a repeat of the graveyard (and 
Harry v Draco outside of Snape's classroom in GoF) combined with a 
repeat of Godric's Hollow. What did Harry have to learn to accomplish 
that? The lore of the Elder Wand? Gee, that's interesting!



> Betsy Hp:
> I'm thrilled with the amount of agreement we have going on, Mike!  
> Also, I'm curious: what did you want to see with Slytherin?  
> Obviously, I was hoping for a redemptive arc, but what were you 
> looking for?  A bigger show down?  (Honestly, I think I'd have 
> preferred that to the whimper Slytherin ended with.)

Mike:
It wasn't so much *with* Slytherin, for me, as it was with Snape and 
even moreso with Draco. I know that JKR was keeping the whole Snape 
arc a secret from Harry, but it wasn't a secret from her readers and 
she knew it. I wanted more hints than the Hagrid detention for 
Snape's true leanings, I wanted more scenes with Snape in general. 
Maybe one of those 'sans Harry' scenes of Hogwarts somewhere in the 
middle of the book.

Though I will admit that after Snape was sent packing by McGonnagall 
and Flitwick so late in the book, I was getting seriously concerned 
for Snape's true loyalties. So maybe I'm countermanding my own 
request here. I just thought there should have been more interaction 
between Snape and Harry than Harry collecting Snape's thoughts while 
he's in his death throes. Snape was too delicious of a character for 
his big reveal to be post mortem.

But Draco was the biggest disappointment. What happened to that kid 
that was lowering his wand on the Astronomy tower? Would it have been 
cliche if Draco had suddenly turned on Crabbe and Goyle in the RoR, 
then telling a grateful Harry "I didn't do it for you, I did it for 
my parents"? Maybe. But Draco's entire arc seemed to be about 
discovering Voldemort was not only a terrible choice, he was a real 
threat to his and his parents lives. He showed all those indications 
in the few scenes we see him in before the return to Hogwarts. 

So who was this kid in the RoR? And, please, did she need him 
whimpering to some DE out on the grounds about "being on your side" 
just so Ron could deliver a punch and one of his cliche'd quips? Was 
Ron's line that important? Couldn't we have gotten a slight glimmer 
of remorse and hint of redemption? Hell, Ron could still have 
delivered his quip. 

As for Slytherin as a whole, all I really wanted was for them to 
realize that this stupid pure-blood mania got them where they were, 
caught in the Voldemort web of deceit. But, like you said about 
Harry, the Slytherins didn't seem to learn anything either. In any 
case, 99% of the Slytherin students didn't suffer any repercussions 
for those beliefs. 

One scene I would have appreciated. Theo Nott shown throwing a 
Protego to protect his DE father in battle. As his father turns to 
thank him, Theo hits him with a Stupify and says something like "This 
has *got* to end." He then Mobilicorpuses his father off the field 
towards the front gates. Something simple to show me that at least 
one of them **Got It**.

Mike, who doesn't have the same regrets for the series that Betsy has 
and still doesn't think the message was evil, but is seeing more and 
more her side of the story. Who says the story's over and there's 
nothing left to discuss? ;)