Lupin's behavior (Was: CHAPDISC: DH11, The Bribe)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 180603

> zgirnius:
> The way real people talk in conversations, in my experience, we
> cannot conclude Harry would still read Lupin the same lecture if
> Lupin was there with Tonks' blessing.

a_svirn:
Of course he wouldn't. It doesn't follow, however, that he had any
right to lecture Lupin at all, let alone to insult him.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Okay, I do not get it. Say Harry saw Lupin deciding to do some other 
dangerous thing for the Order, which has nothing to do with Harry. 
Say Harry decided to give Lupin the same lecture, or roughly the 
same lecture as he gave him in this chapter.

I will be the first one to say that this is NOT Harry's business. 
But here Lupin comes to Harry to offer services. Those are the 
thoughts Harry has about Lupin's situation; those ARE the reasons 
why he rejects his help. You think Harry should have been quiet? 
Okay, but how would the readers learn that those ARE the reasons?

Do you know what I mean? If JKR agrees with Harry and wants reader 
to know the reasons, I just do not see who would be MORE logical 
person to express them.

I mean, say Molly or Arthur or anybody decided to lecture Lupin on 
this, I would again say - none of your business, but Harry did not 
ASK Remus to offer his help, no?

Are you saying that he has no right to respond? He was insulting 
sure, but as Zara said - till Remus brought up James, he was harsh 
but courteous.

You know - bitter truth is better than sweet lies, etc?

Magpie:
<SNIP>
However, I don't think any of that applies here to Harry, speaking 
for
this reader. All I'd seen of Lupin/Tonks was a weird relationship 
where
Lupin was never happy and Tonks was blissfully unaware of her 
husband's
state of mind and everyone else said he should be with her and 
ignored
his ambivalence as well. So I wasn't much surprised when he tried to
duck out again, since none of the issues Lupin had with being with
Tonks were ever addressed, just overrided by everyone else who said
they shouldn't matter. (Lupin being Lupin bowed to the pressure and
shut up, but that never seemed like a good idea to me in HBP either.)


Alla:

Sure, this explanation I am happy to buy and in my mind it is the 
most sympathetic to Lupin. I wanted to strangle Molly in HBP when 
she was basically forcing him to accept Tonk's pining. BUT you know 
what? There is always a point when I stop feeling pity for the 
character like this and start getting annoyed. You do not love 
Tonks? FINE – do yourself a favor and tell everybody around you, 
especially Molly to go jump in the lake and tell Tonks to stop 
following you around as a kitten and find somebody else as object of 
her affection.

I think it is totally Remus' character; I am just not very 
sympathetic anymore.

Or maybe and that is what I am thinking that JKR agrees with Harry 
and what he said about Remus was true. Otherwise as Carol said would 
Remus made Harry a godfather, but for acknowledging the truth? I 
wonder.

Oh, by the way just wanted to say that one thing I completely 
disagree with Carol is that I do not think Lupin's being a werewolf 
played any part in Harry's decision to reject his help. IMO.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
Even if Lupin didn't truly want to be with Tonks and really did have 
a
horror of the danger he put her and the baby in (and a horror of
creating a baby that would be under the same stigma he was) I didn't
think that made him a coward--maybe because those thoughts always
seemed perfectly reasonable to me to begin with. I mean, Lupin is the
only werewolf here; he's the one who really knows what it's like and
really knows what he fears. And Harry's never been very good at 
reading
situations before--here, in fact, Harry's blatantly putting his own
issues on Lupin in a way not that different than Sirius projected his
feelings about James on Harry.

Alla:

Sure, it is possible, but I still have a feeling that JKR agrees 
with Harry here. He has issues with dead parents, but I do not see 
anything not true in what he said about parents not leaving the kids 
unless they have to. I mean, what I am trying to say is that I do 
not see how his issue stops him from assessing the situation, if 
nothing else it gives him more insight IMO.


And yes, I think DH was a nice support for Sirius/Remus too, hehe.