Lupin's behavior (Was: CHAPDISC: DH11, The Bribe)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 180607

 more accurate to suggest it was the voice of the author. 
> > 
> > Magpie:
> > 
> > However, I don't think any of that applies here to Harry, 
speaking for 
> > this reader. All I'd seen of Lupin/Tonks was a weird relationship 
where 
> > Lupin was never happy and Tonks was blissfully unaware of her 
husband's 
> > state of mind and everyone else said he should be with her and 
ignored 
> > his ambivalence as well.
> 
> Pippin:
> Tonks was not unaware of Lupin's state of mind, at least in HBP. 
They'd
> discussed their relationship a lot according to what both of them 
say. 

Magpie:
The point is Tonks is the one who thinks all they need is love, and 
everybody agrees with her, and that's the view that's given credit. 
That's what 'talking about it' seems to be. The only time Lupin looks 
particularly happy is about the birth of his son. Tonks is the one 
who's glowing and pink-haired when she's happy about having him. I'm 
not seeing Arwen/Aragorn from the LOTR movies here. I didn't doubt 
Aragorn wanted to be with Arwen and their love didn't see not real. 
PJ remembered to give me some heat from Aragorn's side so I didn't 
feel like Arwen was just constantly chasing him and moping over him 
and making him more uncomfortable than lovelorn. I never 
thought "He's just not that into you" about those two.

Pippin:
> I wasn't surprised when Lupin ducked out, because he said he was a 
coward
> back in PoA, and I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop ever 
since.

Magpie:
Yes, unfortunately after everything I'd seen he didn't seem like a 
coward for leaving his wife to try to rid the world of Voldemort. He 
just seemed like a guy who didn't really want to be in the marriage 
and always thought it was a bad idea. All the talking they did always 
seemed to be about Lupin giving his objections and Tonks saying how 
they didn't matter to her (and everyone else saying they shouldn't 
matter). He still never seemed all that happy to be overruled there. 

Pippin:
> 
> Daredevilry -- risking your life for thrills-- is more than 
compatible with 
> cowardice. Lupin has an old habit of drugging himself with danger 
to avoid
> his responsibilities. The opportunity to do so is the downside of 
Gryffindor
> bravery. 
 
Magpie:
I can't think of any examples of Lupin drugging himself with danger. 
The problem still for me was in the end the "responsibilities" Lupin 
had never seemed happily embraced to begin with, so he and Tonks just 
seemed like the idiot couple. If he seemed cowardly it honestly felt 
to me like the cowardice was in not wanting to tell anybody that he 
actually really didn't want to be married, period, for whatever 
reasons. And it was all kind of pointless since Lupin just worked out 
these alleged problems off stage thanks to Harry's tantrum.

Pippin:
> 
> And that brings us to the downside of Gryffindor chivalry: 
> disempowerment. In order for someone to be a protector, someone 
else 
> has to  be a weakling. 

Magpie:
Not sure where this comes into anything. Lupin didn't seem to think 
Tonks was a weakling, nor did he think Harry and the Trio were 
weaklings. If the Dark Lord's taken over I wouldn't think anybody 
should be getting offended at somebody offering to help the three 
teenagers the old guy has decided have to destroy him themselves.

Pippin:
> 
> There's nothing wrong with helping someone who  really needs it. But
> Lupin is not offering Harry help with the weakness we perceive. He 
doesn't
> want to take over  responsibility for the mission or give Harry 
guidance 
> on how to complete it. He doesn't even want to know what it's 
about. 
> He's only offering himself as a kind of  bodyguard, and
> this to someone who's survived more confrontations with Voldemort
> than anyone else. It's insulting, really. 

Magpie:
What's insulting about it? Harry's survived his confrontations with 
Voldemort due to outside help or weird things happening. It seems 
like you're suggesting that the ego of 17-year-old who wants to be a 
big boy should be more important than the practical best thing to 
bring down Voldemort. I don't see how Lupin offering to come along to 
guard them or help them is insulting.

 
> Magpie:
> . And she wonders what the scene would have been like if 
> > Lupin had shot back with his own meta commentary, demanding to 
know why 
> > Harry had to play the lone boy martyr hero when so much was at 
stake 
> > when it would have made far more sense to work together to 
destroy 
> > Voldemort.
> 
> Pippin:
> They *are* working together, but like "pillars four", not like one 
pillar
> trying to do everybody's job. Harry can't protect Tonks and her 
unborn child, and
> if the baby is a werewolf, there may be no one for them -- except 
Fenrir
> of course.

Magpie:
The Order isn't doing jack s*** about the Horcruxes, which is a 
bizarre. I think this is due mostly to Harry's personal heroism being 
what the author wants the story to be about than the most sensible 
plan for the task at hand. Lupin is hardly trying to do everybody's 
job by offering to be the adult acting like he's actually in a 
Resistance Movement. Sure there's good reason for Lupin to be around 
if his kid is a werewolf--though he's not ultimately doing that 
anyway. Lupin and Tonks both wind up abandoning the kid and getting 
themselves killed. Yet for some reason it's no longer being cowardly 
or dare devilish. It's fine for Harry to prefer Lupin staying with 
his wife and kid. I still don't buy his insults about it or his 
analysis of Lupin.

 
> Pippin
> having dismaying ideas of what would happen if a fetus
> transformed and wishing she'd never seen 'Alien'

-m (wondering why on earth whether or not werewolfism is passed from 
father to son is a question in the WW at this point since people 
ought to know by now if it works that way.)