Occlumency lessons WAS: Slytherins come back

[Annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 180629


> Annemehr wrote in
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/180452>:
> 
> << I accept DD's explanation that LV first became aware of this 
during
> the attack on Arthur Weasley (but *how* does he know? -- actually 
this
> bugs me). My best guess is that LV received *something* in his
> direction if Harry's emotions were strong enough. >>

Catlady replied:
> 
> That's what I thought until last week, when I collected quotes from
> OoP for my post about Arthur not dying.Here's where Harry and the
> Weasley kids portkey to Sirius's house:
> 
> <<Harry felt a powerful jerk behind his navel, the ground vanished
> from beneath his feet, his hand was glued to the kettle; he was
> banging into the others as they all sped forwards in a swirl of
> colours and a rush of wind, the kettle pulling them onwards . . .
> until his feet hit the ground so hard his knees buckled, the kettle
> clattered to the ground, and somewhere close at hand a voice said:
> 
> 'Back again, the blood-traitor brats. Is it true their father's 
dying?'
> 
> 'OUT!' roared a second voice. >>
> 
> Sirius shouting 'OUT!' was Kreachy's opportunity to go on a long 
visit
> to Narcissa. Kreachy knew that Arthur had been injured; he must have
> heard that from Phineas Nigellus's portrait alerting Sirius; he coud
> tell Narcissa that DD's side knew that Arthur had been injured very
> soon after it happened. 
> 
> Phineas Nigellus had heard everything Harry told DD, and Kreachy 
could
> overhear as much of it as Phineas Nigellus told Sirius, which might
> include that DD knew because Harry had lived it in his own head; he
> may well have been more communicative (tho' just as snotty) to 
Sirius,
> his last descendent and an alleged adult, than he was to Harry.

Annemehr:

Ooooh, good catch!

So -- we don't know what Kreacher heard Nigellus say, but it may have 
been sufficient to explain everything to LV, and was certainly enough 
to be going on with...

And -- we don't know what LV may have told Snape, who would have 
passed the information on to Dumbledore, but it may have included the 
way he found out about Harry's scar-o-vision.  Whatever that was.

I mean, both could have happened -- that LV sensed Harry's presence 
during the attack, and Kreacher's story confirmed and fleshed it out.

Then we are left to judge for ourselves whether DD is meant to be 
telling the truth (however he could have known it), for literary 
purposes.


Catlady: 

> It may be that LV *never* felt Harry sharing his mind, any more than
> he ever felt the destruction of his Horcruxes. It may be that he
> learned of Harry sharing his mind only because Kreachy told Narcissa
> and Narcissa told LV.
>

Annemehr:

Hmmm...  Well, the scene in the Atrium really looks to me that LV 
sensed from afar that Harry was shouting about the loss of the 
prophecy.  But I couldn't really prove that to anyone who, like Mike, 
thought that LV was actually hiding in the Atrium at the time and 
simply heard Harry's voice.  It's just that, I can't see any reason 
for LV to actually be in a place that his whole plan was concocted 
for him to be able to avoid, until his temper gets the better of him 
*after* he learns the prophecy's gone.  Also, literarily, the scene 
seems to be written to tell us that LV arrived just as Bella began 
screaming to him that it wasn't her fault.

Also, you'd have to believe that LV would deploy Kreacher and the DEs 
according to the plan, without being able to sense that Harry had 
receive the "Sirius under torture" message.  But clearing the 
Ministry of guards and putting the DEs in place seems awful risky if 
you don't even know if your bait is set in the trap.

Yet, as explanations to one of the big mysteries, I have to admit 
they aren't very definitive, are they?  As for what we can learn from 
LV's and Harry's symptoms in DH, I'll need a reread -- with a pen and 
notebook -- but that book doesn't really seem to have cleared any of 
it up.  Added to the confusion, more like. We'll see.

I wonder if your OoP find had anything to do with why Alla felt it 
was ambiguous in the first place?

Annemehr