Explain This Passage

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 180641

Susan McGee wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > (And a squib of course is a muggle. But a squib differs from
some muggles because a squib would have been born into family where
one of the parents was a witch or a wizard. We KNOW that a squib CAN
have two magical parents, because Neville's family was afraid that he
was a squib, and both his parents were magical. The non-squib muggles
would be muggles who had two non-magical parents). <snip>
> >
Carol earlier:
> >
> > Actually, that's not quite accurate. A Muggle is a a person with
no magical powers and no (known) magical ancestors. <snip>

Carol again:

I forgot to state that Neville's "they thought I was all-Muggle"
remark appears in SS/PS, before JKR has introduced the concepts of
Squibs or Half-Bloods. Even Draco only refers to "the other sort,"
implying a distinction between kids like himself who grew up in the WW
with a witch and a wizard as parents and Muggle-borns, a term that has
not yet been used. He seems satisfied with Harry's answer regarding
his parents ("They were a witch and a wizard, if that's what you
mean") and doesn't press the matter further except to ask Harry's
surname (which, of course, he doesn't find out until later). My point
is that, at the time Neville uses the term "Muggle" rather than
"Squib" to refer to his own supposed lack of magical powers, JKR
either hadn't invented the term yet or didn't have Neville use it at
that point because she didn't want to bring in the anti-Muggle-born
prejudice until CoS, where it's important because the Basilisk is
targeting Muggle-borns.

At no other time that I can recall is the term "Muggle" used to refer
to a Squib, and the term "Squib" is never applied to Muggles at all.
(Voldemort twice refers to the Muggle-born Lily as "your Muggle
mother," but that's merely a reflection of his prejudice and is not,
of course, a reference to a Squib.)

Carol earlier:
> > A Squib, OTOH, has, as you say, either one or two magical parents,
and> is therefore *not* a Muggle. He or she is a Pure-Blood or
Half-Blood who somehow fails to develop magical powers. snip.
> 
> Susan responds:
> Hmmmm....interesting..not sure I totally agree. I think that pure-
blood or half-blood are political constructs, not genetic categories
(see my prior post referencing JKR interview about this)...and there
> doesn't seem to be any correlation between intensity magical powers
> and being half-blood, pure blood, or muggleborn.so I wouldn't
> describe a squib as pure-blood or half blood...so would someone be
> considered a squib if one parent was a muggle, and the other parent
> was a witch or wizard? Or do both parents have to be magical for a
> non-magical person to be considered a Squib (I would guess that this
> is the case).

Carol again:

I should have said that a child born to either one or two magical
parents is normally a Witch or a Wizard, with whatever blood status
the WW normally assigns to such a person (Pure-Blood, Half-Blood, or
Muggle-born; we don't see any other possibilities). If, however, that
child is born without magical powers, he or she in essence forfeits
whatever blood status he or she would have had and is merely a Squib.
Pure-blood parents or not, a Squib born into the Black family is
burned off the family tapestry. (I speculate that other Pure-Bloods
would eliminate the Squib from their list of eligible marriage
partners since the absence of magical powers would outweigh his or her
pure-blood ancestry. I also speculate that Mrs. Figg, who blended so
easily into Muggle society, at one point married a Muggle. Her
children, if any, would probably be considered Muggles--not that the
WW cared enough to keep tabs on her or them.) I agree that there's no
correlation between blood and magical power (despite the pure-blood
supremacy ideology), but that's not what I was talking about. I just
meant that a Squib forfeits the claim to having any Wizarding blood at
all in the eyes of those who care about such things, whereas if he'd
been born to the same set of parents but with magical powers, he'd be
labeled according to his blood status (as Harry, Neville, Ron,
Hermione, Draco, Severus, James, Sirius, Regulus, Lily, and many
others are, not to mention "half-breeds" like the half-Wizard,
half-Giant Hagrid).

As for Pure-Blood and Half-Blood being political categories, I think
that's only partly true. Since (Slughorn aside) Wizards in general
speak of "blood" rather than genes or chromosomes, they're looking at
bloodlines, at ancestry as illustrated in the Black family tapestry
and books of Wizarding genealogy (or the absence of such family trees,
in the case of people like Hermione, "a girl of no wizard family," as
Lucius labels her. To me, it's very similar to European monarchs
choosing brides for themselves and their sons (and, often, husbands
for their daughters) based on the prospective brides' (or grooms')
ancestry. It's politically motivated, but it also involves actual
ancestry (cf. "noble blood," "princes of the blood," and similar
expressions). That such bloodlines are used to determine suitable
marriage partners or as a criterion for admission into Slytherin
(Half-Bloods can claim a "wizard family," so they're allowed) and as a
propaganda tool for recruiting DEs does not make claims such as
Ernie's "nine generations of warlocks" any less true. As for classing
someone like Harry, whose mother is a Muggle-born witch married to a
pure-blood wizard as a Half-blood, if we look only at the blood status
of the grandparents and not at genes and chromosomes and mutations,
there's no difference between Harry (whose Potter grandparents are
pur-bloods and whose Evans grandparents are Muggles) and Tom Riddle
(whose Gaunt grandparents are pure-bloods and whose Riddle
grandparents are Muggles). Certainly, Voldemort himself makes no
distinction, comparing Harry's "Muggle mother" to his own Muggle
father and Harry's status as Half-Blood to his own.

> Carol:
> (It appears that Squibs, unlike Muggles, can see Hogwarts and
> communicate with cats, but they can't see Dementors or cast spells.
> 
> Susan responds:
> I understood that Mrs. Norris, and Mrs. Figgs' cats were part
Kneazle...and we don't know (really) if Muggles can communicate with
part cat/part Kneazle. So do we really know that the ability to
communicate with part Kneazle/part cat is restricted to Squibs? Could
Muggles also communicate with them? <snip> We know that the part
cat/part Kneazles bonded to Mrs. Figg, Mr. Filch and Sirius Black --
maybe they could also bond to a muggle?

Carol responds:
Unfortunately, our only information about Mrs. Figg's cats being
part-Kneazle comes from interviews. Canon says nothing about it. FB
isn't much help, saying only that Kneazles make good pets for witches
or wizards but are sufficiently distinctive to attract Muggle
interest, which, I suppose, means they have to be hidden from Muggle
eyes or they'll violate the Statute of Secrecy. (If that's true, then
Mrs. Figg's supposedly half-Kneazle cats must look enough like regular
cats not to attract notice.) IIRC, JKR never says that Mrs. Norris is
anything other than a highly intelligent (and unpleasant) cat.
Interestingly, Hermione, an intelligent and highly talented witch,
doesn't seem to have the same affinity with the half-Kneazle
Crookshanks (who can detect Animagi posing as animals) that Mrs. Figg
and Filch have with their respective cats. As for Sirius Black, he was
an Animagus and apparently communicated with Crookshanks while he was
in dog form in much the same way that Peter Pettigrew communicated
with other rats ("his filthy little friends" who told him where the
spirit that possessed and destroyed small animals was hiding). there's
no evidence in the books or even in interviews of similar bonds
between cats and Muggles (however much some Muggles, say Aunt Marge,
may dote on their pets).

Susan: 
> And there is evidence that Squibs can see dementors. Order of the
Phoenix, hardback, U.S. edition, p. 143.
> '"A Squib, eh?' said Fudge, eyeing her closely........'Incidentally,
can Squibs see dementors?' he added, looking left and right along the
bench where he sat. 'Yes, we can!' said Mrs. Figg indignantly.'"
> THIS would serve to support the theory that there is a difference
between Squibs and Muggles.

Carol:
Yes. I actually agree with you. The problem is, Mrs. Figg's testimony
conflicts with her creator's. JKR says on her website in the passage
on SQUIBS in the room with the bulletin board (I've forgotten what the
section is called) that Squibs can't see Dementors and Mrs. Figg was
lying (encouraged by Dumbledore to commit perjury). Shall we believe
Mrs. Figg, then, rather than JKR's outside-the-books explanation? <eg> 
> 
> Vis a vis seeing Hogwarts...sounds like you are assuming that
because Mr. Filch lives inside Hogwarts that Squibs have an ability
that Muggles do not...It could be that the protective spells are
relaxed for him, and could be relaxed for Muggles. Have we ever
noticed a Muggle at Hogwarts? We know that Muggles can get into Diagon
Alley (Dr. and Dr. Granger) and can be admitted to St. Mungo's....We
know that at least one Squib (Mrs. Figg) has been inside the Ministry
of Magic...have there been Muggles there?
> 
> Hmmm..interesting.....

Carol:
Yes, you're right. I'm assuming that not only can Filch see Hogwarts
when he's inside the building, as he obviously can, but also that he
can see the castle to get back into it when he's on the Hogwarts
grounds, such as during the detention of Harry, Hermione, Draco, and
Neville in SS/PS. He's also able to discover four of the seven secret
passages, which are magically hidden, quite a feat for a failed
wizard. So, it's clear to me that the spells that hide Hogwarts from
Muggle view don't work on him. (If similar spells hide Hogsmeade, an
all-wizarding village, they probably don't work on him, either.)

I'm not aware of any occasions when a Muggle visited Hogwarts.
Hermione's parents never visited her there when she was Petrified
(were they even informed?) nor did Colin Creevey's or Justin
Finch-Fletchley's, so far as we know. I don't know how the Grangers
got into Diagon Alley (maybe Hermione knew which brick to touch with
her wand?) or how the Evans family, including Petunia, got onto
Platform 9 3/4 in "the Prince's Tale" (Flint, anyone?). The only
Muggles I know of in the MoM are the ones carved on the throne that
the witch and wizard in the new statue sit on. Both the Ministry
(which is underground) and St. Mungo's (entered through the window
with the ugly dummy) are hidden from Muggle eyes. (I think it would be
hard to get a Muggle through that window; a witch or wizard would have
to use side-along Apparation followed by a Memory Charm to get them there.

Carol, wishing we'd seen Mrs. Figg in DH but glad that she (Figgy)
didn't have to fight any DEs