Lupin's behavior (Was: CHAPDISC: DH11, The Bribe)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 180665

> Alla:
> 
> Please tell me where exactly I suggested that he CAN change being a 
> werewolf, or being unemployable? I gave you three examples which I 
> suggested he could change or at least try to change, none of them 
> includes doing anything that is being beyond his control.
> 
> And actually, come to think of it - yes, I think he can change 
being 
> unemployable, but this is the kind of thing that I would not 
require 
> of him - too much change, so I say that I am not saying he could 
> have done anything to change that. Although him being half blood, 
> why not to go to Muggle world, eh? Why not to get a job there? Not 
> even a permanent job? But as I said, before you say that I am 
asking 
> too much of him, I am NOT. Just pure hypothetical.
>

a_svirn:
But, Alla, none of your examples has anything to do with his alleged 
self-pity. His did *not* whine about losing his job. On the contrary, 
he said that he saw the parents' point – he was indeed too dangerous 
to teach at a boarding school. And though Harry wanted to pursue that 
conversation, Lupin changed the topic, and asked him about his 
Patronus instead. I don't see why you would call that whining. As for 
spying on werewolves, his bitterness wasn't directed at Dumbledore – 
he was bitter because he was what he was – a ready made werewolf. 
Which he couldn't change. As for Molly, I think that perhaps he had. 
Told her what he thought, that is. When she started her spiel about 
poor, lonely Tonks at Christmas he said that she was not lonely – 
that she was with her family. Which effectively closed the subject.  
What's so whiny about it?  

> Alla:
> 
> No, I want him to confront people who wronged him in the calm adult 
> manner and who knows, maybe something would have come out of it.
> 
> Dumbledore for example seemed way too accustomed for all adult 
order 
> members doing whatever he says, who knows maybe the novelty of 
Remus 
> saying NO may have shaken him up a little bit.

a_svirn:
Well, I don't see why you have to single out Lupin, then. He did 
exactly what every other member of the order had always done. Though 
I too find that exasperating. 

> > a_svirn:
> > I wouldn't. Because the only instance in which Lupin's behavior 
can 
> > be construed as cowardly, is that he probably – and neither we, 
nor 
> > Harry know this for sure – did not discuss his decision with 
Tonks. 
> 
> Pippin:
> He was cowardly in not telling Dumbledore that Sirius was
> an animagus - he said so himself. 

a_svirn:
Yes. But that has nothing to do with the situation in question, does 
it? 

> Pippin:
He was also cowardly, or
> at least undependable, in implying he would be available to Harry
> at the end of OOP. He says he couldn't write because he was away
> on a mission, but we know he was around for part of that summer.

a_svirn:
When did he say that he would be "available"? Do you mean the scene 
when *several* members of the Order bullied Vernon Dursley? Well, the 
Dursleys were pretty tame that summer, so there was no reason for 
Lupin or anyone else to threaten them further. (Though Dumbledore 
did, anyway.)

> Pippin:
> Lupin has a long history of making commitments and then reneging.

a_svirn:
Would you mind providing an illustration for this statement? 

> Pippin:
> Harry was quite right to call him on it -- being a friend does not
> mean you have to check your principles at the door. 

a_svirn:
I don't remember Harry calling Lupin on his nonexistent history of 
broken commitments. 

> Pippin:
Besides, if
> Lupin ran out on his own wife and child, what makes you think he'd
> have stuck by Harry? 

a_svirn:
His spotless record as a member of the Order? 

> Pippin: 
> I think it was very much about seeking some personal glory --
> the first thing Lupin wants to know is whether  Harry is
> on some special mission from Dumbledore. 

a_svirn:
And did Arthur and Molly who asked similar questions also seek glory? 
Did Bill?

> Pippin: 
If he just wants to
> protect Harry, who is in special danger from Voldemort whether
> he has a mission or not,   why should it matter? 

a_svirn:
Because Harry would only need protection is he had a mission. If he 
had simply gone into hiding like the entire wizarding population he 
could simply stay at No. 12, without Lupin's or anyone else's help. 

> Pippin:
> Lupin and Tonks did not keep their marriage a secret: the child is 
> a known  werewolf's child whether Lupin is part of his 
> life or not. What good will it do the child for Lupin to run away?

a_svirn:
If they divorced before the child was born it wouldn't be his 
officially. Though, of course it was a werewolf nothing would help at 
all. 

> Pippin:
> Lupin's argument seems to be that a werewolf child has no chance
> of a decent life anyway, so being fatherless won't matter (though 
his
> own parents did everything they could for Remus), while a 
> non-werewolf child will despise him. It seems to be about the
> welfare of the child, but it isn't really, it's about Remus not 
being
> able to endure seeing the child suffer as he suffered, or else not 
> wanting a child who might look down on him. Or that's
> the way Harry seems to see it, and I think he's right. 

a_svirn:
I'd have agreed with you if it had been his argument. But it wasn't. 
The argument was that the child would have a better chance to conform 
to the new regime without Remus being in the picture. 

> Pippin
> Never once does Lupin say it's about doing his part in the war
> against Voldemort. If that's what he feels, why not
> say so?

a_svirn:
Because it's pretty damn obvious? Because he had fought Voldemort for 
years since his early adulthood and Harry knows it?