House elves and some spoilers for Swordspoint WAS: realistic solutions

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 180921

> Goddlefrood:
> If the analogy is drawn, as I propose, between the feudal system 
> and the WW, then your wizard to house-elf relationship becomes 
> not one of master and slave, but one of master and vassal. I 
> wonder if that would meet the case and allow us to move forward 
> in this discussion without referring to the elves as slaves. 

Magpie:
Not for me. They're slaves.

Goddlefrood:
> They do, IMO, more closely resemble vassals than slaves, even 
> if there are definitions of vassal around that aver to slave 
> being a synonym of vassal. It most assuredly is not the same 
> at all. My preferred definition would be this:
> 
> "a person holding a fief; a person who owes allegiance and
> service to a feudal lord [syn: vassal, liege, liegeman, liege 
> subject, feudatory]"
> 
> Taken from WordNet 2.1.
> 
> The parameters for the release of a vassal house-elf are set out 
> in the books. In many ways the house-elf fears release from its 
> vassalage as much as vassals have done. That because there were 
> benefits of being a vassal, such as having the protection of 
> one's lord, housing supplied and in many cases a reasonable 
> stipend. 

Magpie:
House Elves sound far more like slaves than vassals to me. The 
only "benefits" that house elves get from this set up is that they 
apparently like being ordered around by another person (except when 
they don't). They're not being given protection or supplies or 
stipend. They're not being given any land to work, the WW doesn't 
have a feudal system. Elf masters don't have to give anything to 
house elves whatsoever. 

Bex:
But you may have hit the nail on the head.
Elf-wizard relations seem more like a feudal relationship than that of
straight slavery. Slavery is the first thing we think of when we read
about house-elves, but as many readers have argued, it doesn't fit as
nicely as it looks at first.

Magpie:
It seems to me more like slave is the first thing we think of because 
that's what it is, but since Harry's doing it and slavery is kind of 
icky-sounding we've got reason to try to find some other word to use. 
I think the word slavery fits perfectly nicely, just as nicely as it 
did when Dobby first described his situation. The best thing about 
vassal imo is that it doesn't have the same negative connotations 
nowadays that slave does.

The argument that the word slavery "doesn't fit" is entirely down to 
the idea that house elves don't want to have rights or freedom. The 
difference between a slave and a vassal isn't that a vassal doesn't 
want freedom or personal rights and likes serving people so you're 
not really denying him anything he wants.

> Goddlefrood, offering a reasonable alternative word to use and
> anticipating none would use it ;-)
>

Bex:
I hope it catches on. Vasself? feudelf? Or perhaps we need a name for
this idea. EVANS, maybe? (Elves: Vassals Are Not Slaves?) I'm all
a-quiver with excitement....

-m (Slaves)