House elves and some spoilers for Swordspoint WAS: realistic solutions

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 180977

Magpie:
> I do, I admit, doubt that if Lucius Malfoy were the only house elf
> owner in canon (along with perhaps Mr. Crouch) we'd generally
> consider house elf slavery to just be slavery. Not just because
> Harry wasn't doing it but because it wouldn't be presented as a
> nice thing in any way. We wouldn't have the face of a "reluctant"
> slave owner to deal with. The distinction between somebody like
> Lucius and somebody like Harry does seem to be made both in the
> books and in this thread, as if Harry being a guy who treats his
> house elves better than we imagine Lucius treating his changes the
> nature of their contract. I don't think it's about just trying to
> absolve Harry, I think it's an argument in favor of what Harry
> happens to wind up doing, which is totally excused in canon. In
> this case Harry is a stand-in for the reader who has the same
> attitude that's being argued here.

SSSusan:
I wish I understood your last remark better, but I'm afraid I 
don't. :
( I don't think I'm one of the ones who's been making a distinction
between Lucius' & Harry's treatment of their elves in the thread, and
so maybe that's why I'm not getting it.

<SNIP>


Alla:

If I understand Magpie's remark correctly, I disagree with it for 
the 
very same reason I ( and you as well) objected to assumption about 
looking for new word as desire to absolve Harry or something.

I think she is saying that she is assuming that had the books not 
introduced good guy owning a house elf, but only introduced bad guys 
doing it, we would not have doubt that this is anything else but 
slavery.

As in, by introducing reluctant slave owner, the issue is clouded 
for us ( people who just do not see it as exact equivalent of human 
slavery, similar, but not quite), but if only bad guys were doing 
it, we would have no doubt that this is what it is - exact 
equivalent of human slavery.

Am I right, Magpie?

If I am, well, the answer is again, no absolutely not. I do not care 
who owns house elves in canon - Lucius Malfoy, Harry, Albus 
Dumbledore or Joe Shmoe. When I evaluate it, I look at the situation 
as I see it, not at how I view characters without this topic and 
then mix it up together.


Betsy:
<SNIP>
It's a horror, imo. And to try and back away from it by calling it
something *other* than slavery seems an attempt to candy-coat it.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Your assumption is incorrect.