[HPforGrownups] Re: House-Elves yet again

[Random832]

No: HPFGUIDX 181069

a_svirn wrote:
>>> Carol: 
>>> 7) "Freedom," at least in the books, is accomplished through
>> clothes, not legislation.
>>> a_svirn:
>>> Yes. It is slavery that is accomplished through legislation. 
>> Carol:
>> Um, sorry. I don't know what you mean. House-Elves are recognized as
>> property (Kreacher can be inherited along with the house) but that
>> seems to be merely recognizing the (natural or at least pre-
> existing)
>> state of affairs. There's no law on the books that we know of 
> stating
>> that all House-Elves will be slaves or even that all House-Elves 
> must
>> belong to a Wizard. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> Oh yes, we do. Kreacher was inherited legally, wasn't he? Of course 
> we don't know exactly what sorts of laws regulate wizarding 
> inheritance, we are not treated to the equity versus common law legal 
> rigmarole, thank Merlin, but we know the essentials.

Random832:
But we don't. That there is legal recognition that they are property 
does not mean that it was laws that made them property - that is, there 
is no indication that laws were passed making them property, in the same 
way as, say, laws were passed forbidding Goblins to use wands. For an 
analogy, say I own an X-Box 360. It is legally recognized that an X-Box 
360 is property, it can be inherited, etc. But this is not a law that 
has been passed by a particular legislature, there is no "X-Boxes are 
considered property act of 1986"; rather, the fact that movable 
inanimate objects are considered property is something that has existed 
in human society for a hundred thousand years.

We know that the laws _recognize_ them as property, but that's not the 
same as the laws, or any action by wizards, being _why_ they are 
property, which is what a lot of people here seem to be claiming.

>> Carol:
> Somehow, in the distant past, House-Elves started
>> serving Wizards, whether voluntarily or otherwise, and somehow they
>> became magically associated with those old families and houses,
> 
> a_svirn:
> We know how. They were enslaved. That's how it is called in canon. By 
> an elf. 

Random832:
That doesn't answer the fundamental question of *HOW* they were 
enslaved. Whether it was their own choice or something forced by wizards.