Epilogue (was Re: Ron and Parseltongue)

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 183561

> Pippin:
>  You seem to be treating Dark Magic as if it had to  have some
> defining characteristics in order to be a valid category. That's
> probably what Aristotle would have said. But  psychologists say
> Aristotle was wrong: that's not the way the mind categorizes information. 
> 
> Take rock music as an example: The Beatles are a rock group and The
> White Album is a rock album.  But  Revolution No 9 is probably not
> what most of us think a rock song sounds like. Still,  it doesn't
> invalidate the categorization of the Beatles or the album. People
> don't listen to  No 9 and get  confused about how rock is supposed to
> sound, even if they know nothing at all about music theory. And they
> don't develop trouble imagining or recognizing The Beatles sound. 

Montavilla47:
The Beatles are sometimes categorized as "Pop" and they are 
sometimes categorized as "Rock."  I'm not sure if that helps or 
hinders your point.  

When I look at their body of work and what has been recorded about
them, what I see is a group that took in every influence that it could,
combined it with their sound (and George Martin's considerable
producing skill) to make something that became the gold standard.

For example, "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away" is obviously 
influenced by Dylan's stuff.  And of course, there's all that Ravi
Shankar sound in the later years.

Pippin:
> The mind categorizes by association, not logic. The wizards, who
> aren't known for their logic in any case, do not have to have a
> technical or logically consistent definition of dark magic in order to
> use the category.
> 
> IMO, what needs to be consistent in the portrayal of evil is not the
> logic of classifying evil acts but the mental revulsion associated
> with them. Readers may cheer at the crucio, reading it as a blow
> against evil. But AFAIK, no one cheered when Harry said "I see
> what Bellatrix meant. You have to really mean it."
> 
> The crucio is put in its place as evil when we're reminded that it's
> Bellatrix's signature spell. Not to mention that it would be hard for
> any British schoolchild to develop positive associations with
> something called "the cruciatus curse" in any case. 

Montavilla47:
I suppose the main danger is that the British Schoolchildren will
emulate the wizards in developing (or perpetuating) their fuzzy
logic.  

If JKR had written this book about musicians rather than wizards,
and I was expected to side with the rockers and reject the ways of 
the pop singers, I would expect her to lay out the differences 
between rock and pop.  And, if Harry suddenly singing pop 
songs, I'd expect his rocker friends to either question his taste or
go, "Hey, that sounds groovy.  Maybe we ought to rethink our
differences!"

Otherwise I might just finish the book wondering if there really
is a difference between rock and pop and why everyone made
such a fuss about it in the first place.

Because I remember them doing that.

Pippin:
> Similarly, the evil of slavery is vaguely defined as a concept, but
> made clear by association: the characters, without exception, are
> happiest when they can choose for themselves, even if what they want
> is bad for them (or us.) 
> 
> (Side note, for this Independence Day: If none of the Founders
> were really okay with slavery, would that mean  that they never, ever
> wondered if a slave would bring them a snack? )

Montavilla47:
I expect they would simply ask for one.  Or a servant (since they
had those, too).  Ah, the good old days.

Of course, most of us are probably as hypocritical.  We don't like
global warming, either.  But that doesn't stop me from thinking
about taking my car to work.

But in a series that was described by its author as talking about
the evils of excess carbon emissions, I'd find it odd that the hero,
after vanquishing the evil gas producers jumped into his sports
car and drove off into the sunset.

Pippin:
> Back in Book One, Ollivander said  that the wand chooses the wizard,
> and let us know that wizards may have more than one wand. He
> remembered Lily choosing her first one. He never said that once a wand
> chooses you, it's yours for life. But many readers took that as given,
> based perhaps on similar motifs in folklore and fiction.

Montvilla47:
This isn't my issue, but I don't think people are upset because wands
can change allegiance.  I think what upsets people is how complicated
and convoluted the whole Elder Wand story was.

That and Dumbledore setting Snape to get killed by Voldemort for 
a wand he doesn't control.*

*That would be my issue.