CHAPDISC: DH24, The Wandmaker

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 183670

I have enjoyed very much reading listees' responses to the CHAPDISC 
questions, and I wanted to do a little responding myself.

SSSusan's Question 1:
> > Is there any character in this series who has as much experience 
> > with old nightmares?

Alla replied:
> And I would even agree with Potioncat that Snape probably had 
> nightmares. I guess dead Lily pictured prominently in them. I hope 
> he had lots of them.

SSSusan:
LOL, Alla!  You will never change in this area, will you? ;))


SSSusan: I think I found the responses to question about Harry's 
grave-digging sans magic to be the most interesting to read through.

Question 2:
> >  Many readers feel that the death & burial of Dobby is a turning 
> > point in Harry's journey. What significance do you think there 
> > is, if any, in the fact that Harry prepared Dobby's grave without 
> > the use of magic? Why does it lead to "understanding blossom[ing] 
> > in the darkness" [p. 387]?

Alla wrote:
> Oh I think it is very significant, I think it goes back to JKR 
> saying in interviews that she does not believe in magic or 
> something like that and that ending will reflect it or something 
> like that.  I guess the idea is that nothing superficial ( if that 
> is the right word) will stand between Harry and Dobby, no silly 
> wand waving stuff or anything, just grief of one heart for another 
> being.

SSSusan:
It had never occurred to me to think back to JKR's comments about not 
believing in magic herself.  That's a fascinating connection.  Of 
course, I like bringing in Snape's "no silly wand-waving" as well. ;)

Oryomai suggested: 
> Harry didn't use magic because he wanted to get out some of his
> feelings. He was able to push channel a lot of the pain over Dobby's
> death into the digging of the grave. I think that Harry begins to
> understand that there are forces and feelings more powerful than 
> magic (love and sacrifice? ugh...that sounds so cliche!).

SSSusan:
Re: "ugh... that sounds so cliché!"... 

Maybe that's exactly why JKR *showed* it and didn't *say* it! >;)


Jen: 
> Harry's power is his human feelings and relationships rather than 
> magical ability. His obsession and resulting impulsiveness led to 
> their capture and ultimately, to Dobby's death. Digging the grave 
> by hand was a penance, as well as the first time Harry was forced 
> to slow down for reflection about his plan to unite the Hallows.

SSSusan:
Here is another interpretation of this act which had never occurred 
to me:  Harry digging Dobby's grave was his *penance.*  I'm sure 
Dobby would have hated for Harry to think of it that way, but now 
that it's been pointed out to me, I do believe it fits with Harry's 
personality for it to have been his penance.  Or, in my own personal 
view, perhaps both a penance *and* Harry's GIFT to Dobby.

I also really liked what Yraiym wrote on this topic.
Yraiym:
> I think Dobby would have turned himself inside out with 
> embarrassment at being served in such a way by the great Harry 
> Potter. But for him to be a free elf, I would think Dobby would 
> need to not only be able to speak negatively of his former masters 
> without having to punish himself, but he would need to be able to 
> be served by humans/wizards.

SSSusan:
For someone who's been around this list for over 5 years, I love it 
when I encounter things which are totally new to me, things which I 
had never considered.  I felt there was a nugget of true insight here 
which, while it may have been plain to others before, decidedly had 
not been plain to me -- this notion that while Dobby would have hated 
Harry serving him by digging the grave without magic, for Dobby to 
have been *truly* a free elf, he would have needed to be able to 
allow a wizard to serve him.  In his own way, Harry was showing him 
this.

I found such a rich pool of responses to this question about why 
Harry elected to NOT use magic when digging the grave, and the 
possibilities really made my day.  The "end" of magic, no silly wand-
waving; iow, "forces and feelings more powerful than magic." Harry's 
penance for the part he played in Dobby's death.  Harry's gift to 
Dobby.  His gift to himself, in taking the time to reflect which he 
needed to.  Harry's "message" that Dobby must allow others to serve 
him as well.


> > Question 8. When Harry is talking in his mind as if to DD and 
> > asks if he is meant to know but not to seek, he also asks, "Did 
> > you know how hard I'd find that? Is that why you made it this 
> > difficult? So I'd have time to work that out?" [p. 391] What do 
> > you think is the answer to that? How about what you thought on 
> > your first read?

Jen:
> I think that's the right answer, that Dumbledore knew Harry was a
> Seeker at heart and the goal of the Seeker is to grab the Snitch to
> end the game. 

SSSusan:
I totally agree with this.  It was in Harry's nature to be a Seeker.  
Yes, yes, I know that he wasn't so much an *intellectual* seeker, but 
in the sense Jen uses it – as a Seeker trained to grab the goods and 
end the game, Harry was a natural.  I can understand why it might 
have taken some internal wrestling to realize that he *wasn't* 
suppose to Seek this time.


> > Question 14. When Harry said he understood bits of Voldemort and 
> > then went on to say he wished he'd understood DD as much, were 
> > you surprised? Why do you think he made this remark instead of 
> > sticking with Voldemort  as the topic of his understanding?

Jen said: 
> Because understanding Dumbledore is equally important to him by this
> point. He hopes his decision to destroy Horcruxes rather than
> seeking Hallows is the right one, but he doesn't know for sure. If
> he understood DD better he'd have more certainty about his decision.

and Alla said:
> Because I think that despite Voldemort being forced upon Harry, 
> Dumbledore was the one with whom Harry was preocupied on voluntary 
> basis, Dumbledore was the one whom Harry really wanted to 
> understand and felt that it was necessary for his mission.

SSSusan:
I like these two answers together.  The sort of pragmatic side of 
things in Harry's desire to understand DD so that he could know 
whether he was making the right choices on this mission.  But also 
the idea that maybe it wasn't *all* about that.  Maybe there was also 
a measure mixed in of Harry's life having been so deeply intertwined 
with DD that he had an internal need to know DD, and *if it weren't 
for the mission,* he might have the opportunity to focus on 
understanding DD better.  Perhaps it was the mission which forced him 
to put this on hold?


> > Question 18. How is it that, compared to the end of OOTP, Harry 
> > can be so certain the visions he's having are real? We know now 
> > that they are, but how could he be so confident after what 
> > happened in OOTP?

Yraiym:
> IMO, these are visions of Voldy weak and vulnerable; his plans are
> failing – these are not the sort of visions he would try to plant on
> Harry. He's out of control and can't contain his emotions and
> thoughts enough to block Harry as he could in HBP.

SSSusan:
I noticed that most responders didn't elect to say anything about 
this question, or at least not a whole lot.  Heh, I wouldn't have had 
much to say either; I just asked the question to see if anybody had 
any thoughts on it.  I think Yraiym's is an excellent insight -- that 
the *nature* of the visions in DH were quite different from the ones 
in OOTP.  Once Harry came to understand how Voldy had manipulated him 
in 5th year, if he were to think about the kinds of Voldy!visions 
he's seeing now, Yraiym is right that they weren't the kinds of 
things Voldy would be sending along in order to trick or trap Harry; 
in fact, some were things he might not be happy to know Harry could 
see or sense.

Siriusly Snapey Susan