Wands and Wizards...Again (Was: Epilogue ...)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 183752

> Magpie:
 I think the set-up between Wizards and 
> Elves is inherently bad and nothing in elves' psychology makes them 
> need to be slaves, just to serve. It's just as destructive to Elf 
> psychology as it would be to a human to have to serve someone they 
> don't want to serve.

Pippin:
But that comes under the "treated well" part, doesn't it? If they're 
made to punish themselves, or they are made to serve a master they
don't want to serve, they're *not* being treated well. No one in canon
claims that Kreacher is being treated well when he's being forced to
serve Sirius or Harry. Sirius doesn't care whether he treats Kreacher
well or not, and HBP Harry appears to think  that Kreacher is getting
off easy, considering.  Dumbledore knows Kreacher is being treated
badly but appears to regard that as the lesser evil (or the greater
good, if you prefer) over freeing him to die or be subject to
Bellatrix and Voldemort.

> 
> Magpie:
> Kreacher has no natural psychological need to belong to Harry or 
> Sirius. He wants to belong to someone else.
> 
Pippin:
Yup. My point is, he wants to belong to and serve some wizard. That's
the psychology of House-elves, which is different from humans in
canon. He doesn't think like we do, as Hermione puts it. There is one
House-elf in canon who wants to be treated as an equal by wizards. But
there's no human in canon who wants to belong to and serve *anyone*
the way House-elves do. Bellatrix may be slavish in her devotion to
her master, but she expects him to give her power over others in
return. She certainly doesn't expect to wash Voldie's socks or cook
his meals or clean his bathrooms. Molly does the housework cheerfully
(except for the ironing) but she doesn't want to be owned by anyone.

Whereas normally House-elves  seem to want to be owned, and to cook,
clean and tidy  houses, as  naturally as dogs chase rabbits. Even
Dobby doesn't want his day off or his wages to compensate him for his
toil. He wants them to show that work is his choice, not his master's.
But none of the other Elves feel that way.

Wizard enchantments enslave the elves so that they have to punish
themselves for disobedience and so that they can't leave their
master's house without orders. Nowhere in canon are those practices
defended as beneficial to elves. But only Hermione thinks Elves in
general would want to be free in order to escape from them. Even Dobby
doesn't think that. 

 Tune in one of those dog trainer shows and you will find people
having a terrible time with their pet because they try to treat the
dog as an equal. That makes the humans feel good about the way they
treat the dog. But unfortunately treating a dog as an equal doesn't
get you a dog that treats you as an equal in return. It gets you a dog
that acts like it has a weak leader. And that's either a stressed-out
dog, or one that continually challenges for dominance.

Somewhere out there, maybe there's a dog that "gets" equality. But
mostly they don't and most House-elves seem to be the same way. It's
part of their make-up, it's not something they can be taught. But by
the same token, humans *are* represented as having an inborn
psychological desire to be treated fairly, as equals. Lucius yields
his wand to Voldemort and can't help but expect to get something back.
But House-elves aren't like that. 

Aliens with different psychology are a common theme in science
fiction. IIRC, there's a Larry Niven book where a race of
elephant-like beings  take over the Earth. They can literally flatten
the human race -- but then they realize that unlike their
kind, the humans won't make good slaves, because they don't give up
after they've been defeated. Of course the point of the work is not to
say that slavery would be okay if we were more like  elephants, it's
to show us that we can't expect humans to peacefully acquiesce to
slavery by imagining  a race that does.  

I can understand thinking that it's just a bad example for wizards to
have so much power. But to me that's a moot point. Even if the wizards
all snapped their wands and went to live with the Muggles, they'd
still have the power to maim, kill and enslave their dependents. They 
wouldn't have the House-elves to kick around any more, just animals,
children, the mentally ill, the tired, the poor, the huddled masses,
etc, etc, etc. 
 
> Magpie:
> But you don't literally own your spouse. This isn't a metaphor for 
> elves, they're actually owned.

Pippin:
Oh, I might, if I lived some place where spouses are chattel. (Ugh!)
But you seem to be saying that if that were the case, I'd have a moral
duty not to enjoy my spouse, even if I personally gave my spouse all
the independence he desired, loved my spouse dearly, and even if my
spouse considered being unmarried a disgrace and being divorced a
worse one. 
 
> Magpie:
> But feel wretched and depressed when they're owned by somebody they 
> don't want to be owned by. Iow, the unfairness of the situation 
> actually is a problem for elves, they just don't talk about it as 
> wanting their freedom. We actually do see them wanting the freedom
to  choose their masters.
> 

Pippin:
Right, but they *don't* want the freedom of having no master at all.
Canon itself makes it clear that the Hogwarts Elves don't envy Dobby
his freedom one bit,  though the books  don't show any downside to it. 

Magpie:
 There are women who believe women should be subservient to 
> their husbands, for instance, and they can do that, but I don't
think  there should be laws that force them to do that even if they
want  them. 

Pippin:
Agreed. But you seem to be saying that  there is something morally
questionable about Harry being content to let Kreacher serve him even
if there's nothing he can do about Kreacher's attitude or the problems
of other House-elves at the moment. Like, Harry has a duty to be
miserable, and make Kreacher miserable too, because demonstrating that
in this particular instance a House-elf and and a human can manage to
get along under the current circumstances means there's nothing wrong
with them. 


Hermione argues  with the Elves in GoF until they throw her out. In
OOP she attempts to trick them. At the same time she offers kindness
and respect (but not understanding) to Kreacher and he betrays her. Is
it self-serving that she rethinks her strategy?

Pippin