Wands and Wizards...Again (Was: Epilogue ...)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 183766

> > Magpie:
> > And they can do that because of the status of House Elves. Maybe 
> > nobody thinks Kreacher is being treated well in OotP and HBP but
> they  use their positions of power against him because they can. If
> the  situation's there, they can take advantage of it.
> 
> Pippin:
> I can't tell you how many wizarding laws the Order broke during OOP,
> though I'm sure that harboring a fugitive, resisting arrest, 
breaking
> into government buildings, illegal use of the floo network,
> trespassing in restricted areas and violating educational decrees 
are
> some of them. But I'm afraid  legal rights for House-elves would not
> have stood in their way.  

Magpie:
I don't think "people will do it anyway" makes anything ethical or 
not. One doesn't have to know exactly how to fix something to say 
that it needs fixing. I don't see the last snapshot of DH showing 
anything in need of fixing on the House Elf front.

> > Magpie:
> > But Kreacher doesn't have a desire to be owned by Harry or Sirius.
> So  does he really have a desire to be owned? He actually doesn't 
seem
> to  truly want to be owned. He wants to belong to somebody in one
> sense, but not belong to somebody like property whose preferences 
for
> other  people don't matter.
> 
> Pippin:
> Maybe he does want that, but that isn't what freedom means to an elf
> and it wasn't what it meant to Hermione. It meant *clothes*.

Magpie:
Yes, I know. That's why when I talked about it I talked about looking 
at what freedom really meant and finding a way to grant *that* to the 
elves rather than pretending they either have to get clothes or be in 
the same spot they're in now.

Pippin:
> Kreacher already doesn't see Harry as an owner of property, he sees
> Harry as the protector of House-elves.  Harry sees Kreacher as a
> powerful ally and a darn good sandwich maker. What's rancid about 
that?

Magpie:
He sees Harry as the owner of himself, and Harry is the owner of him 
as property. As far as Kreacher is concerned Harry can be a protector 
and an owner of House Elves at the same time. Harry sees Kreacher as 
the House Elf he owns, who happens to also be useful. What's rancid 
about it for me is that one person owns another person as property, 
iow has a slave, in the 20th century no less. That's going to hit a 
wrong note with me, despite not having any personal investment in 
seeing the House Elves freed. That same note's been just getting 
louder for me since HBP especially.

-m