Half-Blood Prince

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 183786

> Jen:
> Although there is Hermione's comment: "I don't think he wanted to
> associate himself with that book," said Hermione.  "I don't think
> Dumbledore would have liked it very much if he'd known." (Chap. 30,
> HBP)  I believe that's meant to be taken as true, meaning there was
> some aspect of the Half-Blood Prince Snape didn't feel pride about.
 
> Carol responds:
> I disagree. Hermione herself has considered the book disreputable 
> from the start, partly because it enables Harry to get marks he 
> doesn't deserve in Potions class without even trying and partly 
> because she disapproves of the spells, which for the most part are 
> no worse than the hexes that the boys (and Ginny) use on other
> students all the time. <snip>

Jen: Except that Hermione isn't disapproving during that particular 
discussion.  She's providing necessary narrative information, playing 
the role Dumbledore typically played at the end of the story.  In 
fact, she goes on to defend Snape from Harry's accusations a few 
paragraphs later.  Her research into the Prince, learning Snape was 
the author of the potions books, appears to have changed her mind 
somewhat even in the face of Snape AK'ing DD.  She never despised 
Snape as Harry did.

Snape doesn't openly associate himself with the potions book during 
the story when he's well within his rights to do so.  He could've 
gone to Dumbledore when Harry refused to give him the book but he 
didn't.  Snape could've proclaimed much earlier on, to a wider 
audience, that Harry was using his own invented spells.  Snape 
doesn't lay claim to the book or the spells until pushed too far by 
Harry, when the two of them are alone. He doesn't act like someone 
who's entirely proud of his inventions.

Carol:
> I doubt that Dumbledore would judge Snape for having invented it in
> his youth, considering what DD planned with Grindelwald at a
> slightly older age. Besides, Snape seems to have (deliberately or 
> carelessly) left his Potions book in the classroom after he left
> school, perhaps because he no longer needed it; everything in it,
> down to the proper order of potion ingredients (and his own 
> improvements), was in his head.

Jen: I doubt Dumbledore would judge Snape for inventing the book but 
he might have had a problem with Snape not destroying it, that he 
left it either carelessly or deliberately where a student could run 
across it.  Harry stops reading the book after the Sectumsempra 
incident.  What else was in the rest of the book as Snape's life grew 
darker? We'll never know but I doubt it was the fairly benign spells 
he started out creating.

> Carol:
> Yes. And, of course, his own abilities would have proven that
> worthiness, not only to Severus himself, but to the likes of Lucius
> Malfoy, who somehow senses a prodigy even as Severus is Sorted into
> Slytherin.

Jen: How could Lucius sense anything about Snape from his sorting?!? 
I don't think that moment means anything more than a prefect 
welcoming a new house member.  Lucius doesn't motion Snape to sit 
beside him even, there just happened to be an open space next to him 
and Lucius patted him as he sat down.  

> Carol:
> I know you're not addressing me, but I'd say "yes" to the first part
> of your post and "no" to the second. He wouldn't excitedly hope that
> Lily would be Sorted into Slytherin if he knew its views, and he'd
> have kept quiet about it in front of Lily rather than covering up 
> his beliefs. Severus is already anti *Muggle* because of his father
> and perhaps Petunia, but that's not the same as being anti-Muggle-
> born.  The only Muggle-born of his acquaintance is Lily, and she's
> his best friend.

Jen: I don't know, he's already pretty crazy about Lily.  Snape's 
hesitation when Lily asks if it makes a difference that she's Muggle-
born means something.  It might not mean anything about Slytherin 
house, but to me it indicates Snape knew some reason why Lily being 
Muggle-born made a difference.

>> Jen:
> The problem with Snape not sharing his nickname with anyone is it
> would invalidate Harry's comment at the end of HBP: "Yeah, that 
> fits," said Harry. "He'd play up the pure-blood side so he could get
> in good with Lucius Malfoy and the rest of them...He's just like
> Voldemort.  Pure-blood mother, Muggle father...ashamed of his
> parentage, trying to make himself feared using the Dark Arts, gave 
> himself an impressive new name - *Lord* voldemort - the Half-Blood 
> *Prince* - how could Dumbledore have missed -? (HBP, chap 30)

> Carol:
> What's wrong with invalidating Harry's comment? He's judging Snape
> as a DE, a traitor to DD, and a murderer, and he's assuming that a
> superficial resemblance to Voldemort has a deeper significance than
> it probably has. Severus didn't need to "play up the pure-blood  
> side so he could get in good with Lucius Malfoy"; Lucius seems to 
> have taken him under his wing from the first, probably more so when
> he discovers the little boy's prodigious talents. And where do we 
> see evidence of Severus "trying to make himself feared using the
> Dark Arts"? It's Mulciber that Lily accuses of trying to use some
> unidentified Dark spell. If such a thing happened, we don't see any
> evidence for it.

Jen: What's wrong is I see some truth in Harry's statement.  Not in 
scope, as you said he's misjudging Snape and assuming the superficial 
resemblance to Voldemort makes the two exactly alike.  They're not.  
But there's more evidence that a half-blood might have trouble 
fitting into Slytherin than there is evidence against it.  Lucius 
Malfoy certainly cared plenty about it, enough to make sure he 
married a pureblood and passed the beliefs on to his son, and 
Bellatrix & Narcissa were raised with the 'Toujours Pur' motto, so it 
wasn't only the current generation of Slytherins who wanted to 
associate with purebloods.  As for Snape making himself feared using 
the Dark Arts, again I don't agree with the extent of Harry's 
statement but do agree Snape used dark arts as a DE. 

Carol:
> Harry is only speculating here, based on false assumptions. We can't
> take his hypotheses about a man he has never understood as having 
> any more value than Snape's view of Harry as "arrogant" 
> and "mediocre." The whole point of the Snape subplot as far as
> Snape himself is concerned is redemption...<snip> 

Jen: Right, and redemption means there's something that needs to be 
redeemed.  Redemption for a man who never did anything wrong except 
associate with a bad crowd doesn't mean as much as one who was a full-
fledged DE, who participated in the activities of a DE, and who 
sought to change his path when he realized the consequences of his 
actions might mean the death of his beloved friend.  I see a grain of 
truth in Harry's angry statement at the end of HBP even if he draws 
the wrong conclusions about Snape's loyalty to Voldemort.