Characters inconsistencies (mostly Snape's) WAS :Re:What did you like

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 183836

> Magpie:
> <HUGE SNIP>
> It's not
> that hard to see why someone might think killing someone as a 
> strategic
> move with their encouragement in order to prevent far more deaths 
> would
> get judged differently than torturing someone out of anger.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes actually it is very hard for me to see that. I mean again, it 
is 
> a strange argument for me, since I cannot criticize either Snape or 
> Harry as I wrote before. BUT had Snape performed that for anybody 
> else, you bet I would criticize Snape more, much more than Harry. 

Magpie:
For you to see it yourself, as in agree with it? Or hard for you to 
understand the distinctions that somebody else is making?

I mean, I don't agree with the idea that the Crucio might as well be 
a stupefy because it's only for a few seconds and it was really just 
a way to stop Amycus and it's war etc. But I don't have a hard time 
understanding where the person is coming from. I understand the 
distinction between torture being temporary and killing being 
permenant. You're looking at all the elements in play for Snape's AK, 
Harry's Crucio, Harry's Imperius and judging them based on all those 
factors. There's the reasons they're doing it, the results, the 
pressures--all those things. I mean, of course Snape performing an AK 
for another person would be different than doing it for Dumbledore--
not just because of their relationship but because a different person 
would bring lots of different circumstances as well.

But you've already gone far beyond the idea that they're both 
Unforgivables and so that's all that matters. Molly kills somebody 
too, but I'd judge that act differently than Snape's too.


Alla:
> Killing enemy in the battle? Sure. Killing in self defense? Yes of 
> course. Doing what Snape did?  As far as I am concerned he only 
gets 
> a pass because *Dumbledore* asked him to do it. 

Magpie:
I think that's probably a big reason that everybody gives him a pass. 
Both that Dumbledore as the victim asked him and was already dying 
etc. and that *Dumbledore* asked him to do it with all the authority 
and power that he has in the resistance and over Snape.

> 
> Montavilla:
> <SNIP>
> What changes is his political affiliation. Lots of people change
> "sides" without changing their character. (Most of them
> would probably insist that it's the party that's changed--not
> them.) <SNIP>
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I strongly disagree. I mean sure Snape' s political affiliation had 
> changed, but I would argue that it is the showing of Snape changing 
> his values and therefore yes, to me it is a deep change in his 
> character. It is not like Snape changed say from being Democrat to 
> being Republican or vice versa, because well, those are just 
> political affiliations. To me it is more like Snape changing from 
> being member of KKK to being democrat or being republican or any 
> other party in any other country.

Magpie:
But none of those would necessarily entail a character being written 
inconsistently. All the qualities that led Snape to the DE led him 
away from the DEs. To me it seems like Snape is written with a clear 
line of character from his earliest scene. The Marauders didn't even 
seem to think Snape changed that much from school until the present. 
I agree with Carol's view that the same things that drew Snape to the 
DEs were clear when he was a kid. Sure he changed through life. He 
had a pretty big event happen that made him see that the DEs were a 
mistake. Had Lily not died he might have found another reason to 
leave the DEs. But I still don't believe that simply leaving the DEs 
makes the character inconsistent (especially a guy whose life is 
defined by very consistent, passionate feelings about a handful of 
people). Snape raising himself in anyone's estimation doesn't mean 
that his character became inconsistent. 
> 
Alla:
I mean I still hate him, 
> but as I said, I will not call him what in my mind I call 
terrorists 
> whose favorite past time is torture and killing. Recently only 
those 
> I cannot save
 I cannot imagine Snape even thinking in these terms 
> when he started with Voldy. I really cannot. He IMO was worried 
about 
> Lily and no other human being meant anything to him. 

Magpie:
Yes, Snape learned and changed. That doesn't mean as a character he 
was inconsistent. 

-m