Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Umbridge's Selwyn Connections (WAS: CHAPDISC: DH - Ch. 21 – The Tale of the

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 183106

Carol:
I don't think that even Umbridge would dare to boast
openly of a connection with the Selwyns, one of whom is a DE, if it
weren't true, nor would she have any kind of connection with Lucius
Malfoy, as she clearly does in OoP (which implies that she's a former
Slytherin given the students she recruits for the Inquisitorial Squad)
if she were Muggle-born. I think we're deliberately shown Selwyn twice
(in "The Seven Potters" and "The Deathly Hallows," IIRC) if we weren't
supposed to notice him and connect the two when Umbridge herself
brings up the connection.

Debbie:
Umbridge doesn't just boast that she's related to the Selwyns; she claims to
be related to most of the old pureblood families.  She's talking about her
entire family tree, not just her closest relatives, so I don't think
boasting of a Selwyn connection would immediately arouse Yaxley's
suspicion.  Sirius stated in OOP that the old pureblood families are all
interrelated, so as I read her statement, she's not implying a close
connection.  Her supposed Selwyn ancestor may have been born centuries ago.
(As a real-world example, I am related to some of the Amish families in
Pennsylvania, but our common ancestor was born in the 17th century.)  We are
shown a Selwyn before the scene at the Ministry so we understand who the
Selwyns are and what Umbridge is trying to do, i.e., Voldemort is in control
of the Ministry and Umbridge is claiming a connection to a pureblood DE
family.  Smart career move.

As for Umbridge's connection with Lucius Malfoy, Lucius had been courting
Fudge, as Harry saw when he was at the Ministry for his hearing.  Umbridge
was Fudge's undersecretary, charged with implementing his policies at
Hogwarts.  I don't believe a stronger connection was necessary to explain
Umbridge's choice of Draco and other Slytherins for the Inquisitorial
Squad.  I also should clarify that I don't believe that Umbridge is
muggleborn; rather, I expect she (like Riddle and many others) has a more
chequered heritage than she wants to admit.

Carol:
(BTW, she didn't get the locket in a pawn
shop; she took it from Mundungus as an alternative to sending him to
prison. I think she saw that it was Slytherinish, not to mention
valuable, and I think that the "S" being for Selwyn must have popped
into her mind at the time as a plausible explanation for her wearing
an initial that was not her own.

Debbie:
Arrgh, I'd forgotten this point.  As Potioncat points out, this is better
than a pawnshop, and classic Umbridge lawlessness.  You may be right that
she decided to pass it off as a Selwyn artifact later.  Actually, we're not
sure when she started wearing it.  She may have pulled it out after the DEs
took over the Ministry on the theory that under the new regime, connections
to the old pureblood families are the best means of getting ahead.  Given
Umbridge's usual (dis)regard for the truth, fabricating a connection would
not be out of character.

Carol:
I don't suspect her of having any sort of crush on "Cornelius" or him
of liking her in any sort of romantic way. (Gag!) I suspect her and
her ally, Lucius Malfoy of manipulating Fudge in OoP, one through
bribes and the other through psychology. I'm not sure that he ever saw
through her, or that Rufus Scrimgeour did, until it was too late and
the MoM had been infiltrated by DEs (at which point, Scrimgeour had
only a short time to live).

Debbie:
Umbridge does tend to take the implementation of Fudge's wishes into her own
hands, but I don't recall any canon showing Umbridge and Lucius working
together to manipulate Fudge.  Umbridge doesn't seem to manipulate Fudge but
rather goes off vigilante-style to carry out his objectives without regard
to law or safety, using whatever works -- Dementors, Crucio, in addition to
the usual lies.

The crush is pure speculation; the real point is that by using his first
name she implies a closeness that may or may not exist.

Carol:
How did Umbridge get Mad-eye Moody's eye if she didn't have a rather
close connection to a DE, the logical candidate being Selwyn? I don't
think it was Yaxley; he'd have taken it for his *own* office. And it
can't be the wandless Lucius, now completely powerless and out of
favor with LV and the MoM.

Debbie:
To my knowledge, there is no canon indicating that the DEs succeeded in
finding Mad-Eye's body (in fact, there's no canon that they actually looked
for it, only Bill's concern that they might find it first).  However, a
statement in the following chapter implies that the Ministry might have
found the body:

"They had not been able to hold a funeral for Moody, because Bill and Lupin
had failed to recover his body.  It had been difficult to know where he
might have fallen, given the darkness and the confusion of the battle.
'The Daily Prophet hasn't said a word about him dying, or about finding the
body,' Bill went on. 'But that doesn't mean much.  It's keeping a lot quiet
these days.' .  . . 'Scrimgeour doesn't want to admit that You-Know-Who is
as powerful as he is, nor that Azkaban's seen a mass breakout.'"

This language seems to imply that the Ministry may have discovered the body,
but suppressed the news.  Considering how Umbridge acquired the locket, it's
not hard to imagine her appropriating the magical eye in the same fashion.

Also, I can see Umbridge using her usual means to procure objects she's
interested in.  Moreover, I would have thought that the DEs would have
considered the magical eye too valuable to hand over to Umbridge, or anyone
else who wasn't a DE.  It's not like she was using it for any purpose the
DEs could possibly have cared about.  Spying on one's employees is petty and
a bit sad.

Debbie
who hasn't read much canon lately except for a recent reread of DH, and
hopes that people will kindly point out any factual errors


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