Did you LIKE Snape?

[littleleahstill]

No: HPFGUIDX 183143

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jkoney65" <jkoney65 at ...> 
wrote:
> Jack-A-Roe:
> I believe that Snape was probably the most interesting character 
in 
> the series. In fact there wouldn't have been a series if not for 
his 
> dubious actions.
> 
> But like him, not a chance. He isn't some tragic character that 
fate 
> decided to mess with, that was Harry. 
> 
> As a child we see that he is already prejudiced against muggles, 
but 
> not muggle borns. He is not friendly to Petunia at all. We find 
out 
> that he recognized a letter she got from Hogwarts and he read it. 

Leah: He is a wizarding child growing up in the Muggle world.  He 
meets another child who is a witch. This is like a child who is very 
musical but has lived with people who are tone-deaf suddenly meeting 
someone who shares his talent.  There is no reason for him to be 
interested in Petunia, and he is not helped by the fact that his 
Muggle father appears to be unpleasant.  Petunia sneers at his home 
and at his 'mum's blouse'.  The reading of the letter was also done 
by the sainted Lily.
> 
> We see in his dicussions with Lilly that he is hanging around with 
a 
> poor choice in friends. She calls what they did as dark and he 
> immediately rationalizes that James, Sirius, etc also play pranks. 
He 
> is intentionally trying to compare apples and oranges.


He hangs aroound with people from his house, like everyone in the 
Potterverse.  As we have no idea what Mulciber and Avery were up to, 
we don't know if we are comparing apples and oranges or melons and 
plums.  He is not immediately rationalising, he is trying to tell 
Lily that James and Sirius (does etc emcompass the delightful 
Pettigrew, who's not dark at all?)run with a werewolf.  We know that 
they take this werewolf out of safekeeping and around the local 
village, where they have had a number of 'near misses' ie the 
werewolf has come near to encountering another person. As for 
other 'pranks' - having your head swelled to twice its normal size 
may not have been dark magic, but it can't have been much fun.  It's 
also all good clean fun to choke someone with soapsuds while you 
have rendered them totally immobile, for merely existing.  And 
anyone in a Muggle school who threatened to (and for all we know) 
actually did strip a fellow pupil in public would certainly be 
suspended from school at the least. Oh, and not to mention setting 
them up to be eaten or transformed by a werewolf.  Still, boys will 
be boys.        

> 
> He is so vindictive that he tries to follow the marauders. Does he 
> believe that Dumbledore doesn't know about there being a werewolf 
in 
> school? No, he is simply trying to get them in trouble while 
making 
> himself look good. Unfortunately for him, Sirius sets him up. 
> Fortunately for him James rescues him.

Leah: He does know that the staff know about Lupin because he has 
seen Madam Pomfrey take him to the Willow.  Therefore he is not 
interested in proving Lupin to be a werewolf to the staff. He may 
well be interested in proving to Lily that Lupin is a werewolf.  If 
he is interested in showing that the Maruaders muck around with a 
transformed werewolf, then this not something DD knows, and which he 
ought to be told (see above). Yes, setting up someone to be murdered 
for being nosy is a bit unfortunate. 



> 
> We see that he's now become predjudiced against muggle borns even 
> calling his friend a mudblood. He doesn't even deny calling others 
by 
> that name nor that he and his friends are junior deatheaters.

He calls her a mudblood in a moment of fury and humiliation, while 
she, his supposed best friend, flirts with his tormentor.  We don't 
know that he is actually prejudiced against muggleborns just that he 
uses the term which is current in his house.  Yes that is a 
weakness, but to defy the others would no doubt mean being beaten up 
by the Slytherins as well as the Gryffindors- and might put Lily in 
danger of retaliation. We don't know what Snape is going to say 
about all this, because Lily cuts him off while he struggles on the 
verge of speech.

> 
> He joins the deatheaters 

Leah: Yes

and commits murder. It's ok if you kill 
> other people as long as they aren't someone you know. 

Where is the canon evidence for Snape having committed murder, 
please?  His question to Dumbledore about splitting his soul and 
Dumbledore's question on how many Snape has watched die, suggest 
that he has not killed personally, (although he must have been 
present at killings)
It's not until 
> Lilly is threatened does start to think this is wrong. He is lucky 
> that Dumbledore manipulated him into trying to do good. On his own 
I 
> don't think he would have made it.

Actually, Dumbledore manipulated Snape into becoming his very 
talented spy and right hand man for sorting out threats at 
Hogwarts.  Dumbledore does not ask Snape what he can do to make 
reparation to anyone he might have harmed, or to the world in 
general, which would have been perfectly acceptable and right.  He 
asks Snape 'What will you give me in exchange?'  Dumbledore wants 
Snape to protect Harry, so Harry can die at the right time.  Snape 
may loathe Harry, but he protects Harry so Harry can live. It is 
nothing to do with Dumbledore that Snapes saves those whom he can 
from Voldemort, or tries to save Lupin against Dumbledore's specific 
orders.  In the end, Snape is the better man.   


> 
> People who complain about the marauders picking on him, glance 
over 
> the fact that it was student to student. 

No, actually, as Snape points out it was four students to student, 
and those four were armed with a map and an invisibility cloak which 
must have helped their strike rate.


When Harry comes to school, 
> Snape is the biggest bully on the block and he's a teacher. 

He starts 
> in on Harry the first day of class and doesn't let up. Reading the 
> paper in class and embarrassing Harry/Hermione is much worse than 
> being flipped upside down and having your underwear show.

Snape can be petty and vindictive towards Harry, eg the 'new 
celebrity' comment.  However, he is perfectly entitled to ask Harry 
questions which are obviously answerable by a fair few of the class, 
including Muggleborn Hermione.  Harry is cheeky in return.  We only 
ever see Snape in class with Harry, therefore we don't know what he 
is like with other classes.  We do see him being protective of the 
children in general.  As to Harry's potions class, it must be a 
nightmare for Snape.  He has four children who are the sons of 
marked Deatheaters, and Malfoy at least will be reporting back on 
what is going on.  He also has the Chosen One, and the DE children 
will not expect to see him purring round Harry.  Harry himself looks 
like Snape's enemy, with his eyes constantly reminding Snape that 
his beloved married this enemy.  He tries to tell something of this 
to Dumbledore who reads a magazine. In addition, Snape has an 
attention seeking  Muggleborn who is continually doing what he tells 
her not to do, and Neville who is actually a dangerous liability in 
a class full of volatile substances.  Snape is hardly likely to be 
at his best.   However, his nastiest actions towards the trio, 
including the newspaper reading (which doesn't seem to give Harry 
any lasting trauma) usually follow some rule-breaking, theft etc etc 
for which they are not otherwise punished. So it is childish, but 
does not come out of the blue.        



> 
> In the end, Snape is saved from failing his mission because Harry 
> decided to check on him. Personally if I was Harry I would have 
> kicked him in the balls and spit in his face.

It is not Snape's fault that Dumbledore set the mission up in such a 
stupid way. Snape could have told Voldemort that he was not the one 
who disarmed Dumbledore, and no doubt Voldemort would have then 
spared this valuable servant.  Instead, Snape dies, saving Draco, 
and sending Voldemort to battle against Harry withouy mastery of the 
Elder Wand.  An action clearly deserving of a good kick. Had Harry 
done as you so charmingly suggest, then he would not have known what 
to do, and Voldemort might well have triumphed. 



> 
> If I was in Potterverse, I wouldn't have liked Snape (even with 
his 
> dry sarcasm) and would have been friends with the marauders.

I think you would have got on well with them.

Leah
>