Did Severus Murder

[jkoney65]

No: HPFGUIDX 183208

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>> Carol responds:
> In *your* head, I think you mean. Certainly not in mine. All that's
> involved is a piercing gaze, as if DD is looking into Snape's heart
> and mind, as he so often does with Harry. Legilimency may or may not
> be involved, but to extend the "piercing" gaze to refer to a split
> soul is reading in too much, IMO, especially since Harry has also,
> repeatedly, been pierced by that gaze--and by Snape's for that 
matter.
> Do you think that *Harry's* soul is damaged by DD's gaze, or that 
his
> eyes piercing *Harry* indicate that Harry's soul is damaged? 

Jack-A-Roe:
What I am saying is that she chose the word "pierced" with a reason 
and not twinkling eyes, or he looked at Snape or any other way of 
description.

Of course Harry's soul wasn't damaged. Whenever Harry got that look 
it was because he was hiding something, possibly like Snape is hiding 
his damaged soul.




> Carol earlier:
> > > Speculate all you like. I'm simply saying that *canon* gives us 
no
> indication that Snape ever killed anyone besides Dumbledore, and 
some
> > > indication (his concern for his soul
> > 
> > Jack-A-Roe:
> > Canon may not say it specifically, but it is an obvious 
> interpretation of the scene to me. Snape asking about his soul 
sounded
> more like him complaining that Dumbledore liked Draco better than 
him.
>  Something like "your more worried about his soul than mine" to 
which
> DD responds that only know if yours is already damaged. After that
> Snape nods as if to agree with DD that it won't make it any worse.
> 
> Carol responds:
> But that *isn't* what DD says. He says, "You alone know whether it
> will harm your soul to help an old man avoid pain and humiliation" 
(DH
> Am. ed. 683). So Snape has to decide whether this act is murder or
> something like euthanasia, a humanitarian act. If it's murder, it 
will
> split his soul. If it's an act of kindness, rescuing DD from a worse
> fate, perhaps it won't. It has nothing to do with any previous 
actions
> he may have committed. 
> 
> Jack-a-Roe: 
> > One of the next scenes we see after this is Snape again being
> somewhat childish. It's the one where Snape is complaining to DD 
that
> he is telling Potter things that he isn't telling Snape and DD tells
> him to come to his office later on. Again it comes across as you 
like
> him better than you like me.
> 
> Carol responds:
> You seem to be forgetting the context. Snape is saying, in essence
> (and truthfully, IMO) that DD is making unreasonable demands on him
> (in particular the request to kill DD, which Snape is having second
> thoughts about, despite his Unbreakable Vow) without fully confiding
> in him. Again, we have a parallel with Harry, who thinks almost
> exactly the same thing: "Look at what he asked from me, Hermione! 
Risk
> your life, Harry! And again! And again! And don't expect me to 
explain
> everything, just trust me blindly, just trust that I know what I'm
> doing, trust me even though I don't trust you! Never the whole 
truth!
> Never!" (DH Am. ed. 362).

Jack-A-Roe:
Harry is also acting somewhat childish. Although his is also more of 
frustration of not knowing exactly what he is to do. 

Carol:
>> I was struck by the parallels between Harry's situation and 
Snape's,
> as well as their similar reactions. it's just a shame, IMO, that 
Harry
> didn't know earlier exactly how much Snape had done, how many 
dangers
> he had exposed himself to, for Dumbledore and for Lily.

Jack-A-Roe:
If Harry had known before, it would have made his scene of 
forgiveness of Snape much less powerful. Without it, Harry does a 
great thing by going to see Snape after he was attacked. Very few 
people could have forgiven Snape the treatment he had received from 
him. Not to mention one of his last scenes with Snape is watching 
Snape kill Dumbledore.

> 
> Carol, who does not deny that merely belonging to a terrorist
> organization, not to mention revealing the Prophecy, made Snape an
> accessory to murder but sees no evidence whatever that he killed
> anyone directly before committing the "murder" on the tower at DD's
> request

Jack-A-Roe:
I agree that there is no written canon that says he had murdered 
anyone. But I also believe that there is enough in between the lines 
to believe that he had done so.