Did you LIKE Snape?

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 183225

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:
>
> We've had a recent thread that mourns the passing of Snape. I 
don't, 
> but that led to this query. In the interest of full disclosure, I 
am 
> a Marauder fan and Sirius Black is my favorite character. So I am 
> naturally biased towards despising one Severus Snape. OK, now on to 
> the show. ;-)
> 
> JKR admitted Snape was "a gift of a character", and I'll second 
that. 
> Whatever your leanings I don't see how you could not be entertained 
> by the enigma that was Snape. JKR made sure we would all want to 
know 
> where exactly Severus stood and why he stood there, as much as we 
> wanted to know what was going to happen to Harry. For some of you, 
> maybe more.
> 
> In that respect, I too liked Severus Snape. I too wanted to know 
why 
> he was the way he was. I even color myself slightly disappointed 
that 
> his love for Lily was the *only* driving force that propelled him 
to 
> do what he did for Harry and the good side. I wanted to see 
something 
> more. Maybe some of you did see more, if so maybe you could cite 
some 
> canon for your belief? 


lizzyben:

Well, IMO we can see Snape growing from the selfish to the selfless 
forms of love. At first, he wanted Lily for himself. That's a 
selfish, posessive love. But when he meets DD, he's willing to 
sacrifice anything to keep her safe - even though she would likely 
never know, & even though there was no chance that Snape would have a 
relationship w/her. That's profoundly selfless, in its way. He's 
willing to give up his own life to save hers. But he still didn't 
give a thought to saving James & Harry until prodded by DD. Snape was 
willing to lay down his life someone he loves, but not for an enemy 
or even an innocent stranger. So this love is selfless, but still 
extremely limited & narrow. 

But over the course of the series, Snape vows to protect Harry, even 
though he doesn't even like the kid. Now he's risking himself not 
only to protect a loved one, but also for someone he doesn't like at 
all. He does so out of remorse, duty, and also perhaps something 
more.

Over the course of the series, he continues to save the lives of 
students through his healing, both those he likes (Draco), & those he 
dislikes (Hermione). Given a chance to kill an enemy (Sirius), he 
instead saves him from the Dementors. He gives up his career & 
reputation to save Draco from murder, Lucius from death & Narcissa 
from losing a son. And in DH, Snape chooses to risk his cover in 
order to save Lupin from death, & save Ginny and other students from 
torture by the Carrows. And in the end, he only watches die "those he 
could not save." This is valuing human life because it is life, and 
choosing to protect ALL, enemy & friend, alike. It's a desire to help 
humanity as a whole, not just those he is emotionally involved with. 
And this disinterested desire to save & heal humanity comes closest 
to what we would call "altruism".

So, I think we see the growth of Snape's love from "eros" to "agape" 
over the course of the series. At first, he's only concerned 
w/getting Lily. That's "eros", passion, romantic love & possesive 
love. Then he's willing to sacrifice for Lily, not out of a desire to 
have her, but a desire to protect & save her. That's "philia", real, 
unselfish love for a friend. And by the end, he's willing to 
sacrifice to protect Harry, and Draco, and Lupin, and Ginny, and 
Dumbledore, and Hermione, and Narcissa, and EVERY human being that he 
can save. That's "agape", seeking the welfare of humanity as a whole, 
unconditionally.

That's not to say that Snape isn't a horrible person, because he IS. 
But he also broadens his concern, step by step, from himself to his 
loved ones, to humanity. And with each choice, he moves foward from 
selfish love towards altruism & agape. In that sense, he undergoes a 
journey that no other character does in the Potterverse. And this 
true whether anyone else notices or not. :)

Mike:
 >No, what I want 
to 
> know is if you *liked* Severus? 

lizzyben: No. But I might love him. 


Mike:
> If you were in the Potterverse, would you be mates with him? If 
your 
> answer is yes, is it unqualified? That is, would you have been 
mates 
> when he was just pre-Hogwarts, during Hogwarts as a student, only 
> after he returned to Dumbledore to plea for Lily's life, or do you 
> have no qualifications?


lizzyben:

Uh, I'd be a little worried he might insult me, or pledge his life-
long devotion to me. With Snape, it's a toss-up. Or actually a 
sliding scale, from childhood desperation to adult nastiness. His 
earliest childhood memories are when he's the most desperate for 
affection - which would make him very clingy & needy. That emotional 
neediness continued through his teenage years, when he was so 
desperate to impress Lily. IMO, you can even see vestiges of that 
vulnerability in the DE Snape that came to DD & cringed at his 
disapproval. Later on, he's created a shell, & he pretty much used 
sarcasm & insults to protect himself from others. And that would make 
him unpleasant & nasty to be around. I wouldn't have minded being 
around little Snape or teenage Snape, but adult Snape could be hard 
to take.

Mike:
> 
> Is there any part of his behavior you disliked, abhorred, or just 
> thought was a little too over the top?


lizzyben:

Oh, sure, the treatment of Neville, for one. And the insulting of... 
well, pretty much everyone. 

Mike:
> You see, I'm curious. I could never understand the attraction. 


lizzyben:

Well, IMO JKR got it wrong when she said people like Snape because 
he's a "bad boy." That was never the reason I liked him as a 
character & that seems to be true of others as well. It's much more 
that I identify with him, and that makes me empathize with him quite 
a bit, while still not ever really "liking" his personality.


lizzyben