Muggles v wizards redux

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 183258

> Alla:
> 
> I get the impression that good guys in the books want not as much 
as 
> treat muggles as second class citizens, but just to keep their 
> affairs a secret from muggles as much as it is possible and that is 
> why probably charms that I usually would hate do not bother me, 
since 
> to me they are nothing more than metaphor for please leave us alone.

Magpie:
Yes, they do want to keep it secret but it's obviously also led to 
Muggles being okay to interfere with in general. Memory charms when 
performed on Wizards are treated very differently--often as crimes by 
bad guys.

Alla: 
> But I am still confused. You do not want wizards to decide what's 
> fair treatment for you, ok. But are you saying that **just because 
> you are a muggle** you should be left alone even if you hurt a 
> wizard. Sounds like an unfairness to the other side to me. Or are 
you 
> saying something different?

Magpie;
I never said anything about wanting to be able to hurt Wizards. I 
think the ideal way of Muggles to be treated like Wizards is the same 
way non-disabled people should treat the disabled. See them as of 
exactly the same worth, and being sensitive to their physical 
limitation. By sensitive I don't mean pretending it doesn't exist, 
but being responsibile about your own physical advantages. Iow, be 
very careful about picking on people who have a physical disadvantage 
that you don't. The type of thing Wizards pay lip service to but 
don't do. They can respond appropriately to Muggles hurting them 
without crossing that line.

Alla:
> 
> I mean, wizards are not immune from say dying from the bullet, 
right? 
> Say muggle kills a wizard. Are you suggesting that wizards should 
> have no right to persecute him,  because he cannot do magic?

Magpie:
Of course not. Muggles should get fair trials. Which would mean 
Muggles and Wizards taking part in the trial. It's not like what 
those boys did to Ariana was legal under Muggle law. They would have 
gotten exactly the same treatment as if they'd assaulted a Muggle 
girl.

> Alla:
> 
> What is the canon for the argument that Hermione lies to her 
parents 
> not like any other wizarding teenager or any teenager would lie to 
> get out of trouble or to hide their problems?
> 
> I am not even talking about justifications for what Hermione does. 
> How exactly are they being treated differently? Are we talking of 
> sending them to Australia? Because so far I cannot come up with 
> anything else.

Magpie:
She doesn't tell them what's going on at school--and neither does 
Dean tell his parents. She bails on a ski vacation at the last minute 
to stay with the Weasleys, lying to them that she's just decided to 
stay at school at the last minute and study like all the kids who 
care are going to do. She singles out telling them she's made Prefect 
because "that's something they'll understand." She doesn't tell them 
anything about what's going on 7th year (or most of the time, it 
seems) and brainwashes them into thinking they're other people so 
they'll move to Australia. Even her teeth fit the pattern when 
Hermione fixes them herself over their objections. Again, that's not 
something I really fault her for, but she's not rebelling against 
their authority, she doesn't recognize them as having any authority. 

This isn't a normal daughter/parents relationship. The plot reasons 
for this are obvious, but it works easily because it completely goes 
along with Wizard attitude towards Muggles in general. We didn't even 
need the final indignation of the Grangers being sent to Australia 
the way Muggles in the past have been randomly sent on long journeys 
to get them out of the way.

It would be touching if we were talking about Hermione's pet dogs 
that she selflessly robbed of all memory of her and sent to live on a 
farm where they'd be happier--since anyway it's not like they could 
understand anyway. Her treating two grown, intelligent human beings 
the same way is, imo, chilling. Even more so since the book always 
takes the attitude that it's Hermione who's the victim here because 
she "has to" lie and manipulate them because they're Muggles.

-m