Slytherins are (*not* ) bad (was:Re: Severus as friend)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 183351

> > Magpie:
> > "Jerks on occasion" is not being a jerk. I really don't think the 
> > author would say her good guys are jerks at all (in fact for some 
> > characters I'm not so sure she'd *ever* admit to them being 
jerks).
> 
> Pippin:
> She'd never say that her good guys bullied, were bigoted, or were
> manipulated by Voldemort? I'd guess she hasn't read the books, then
> <g>. The good guys do not always do these things by mistake, nor
> always realize that they've made a mistake.

Magpie:
I think she'd say James and Sirius bullied Snape. I don't think, if 
asked if, say, Harry is a bully or a bigot she'd say no-which is also 
stated by people in canon. I doubt she'd say Hermione was a bully or 
a bigot either. I'm not sure what the "manipulated by Voldemort" part 
is supposed to mean. Harry getting tricked into going to the Ministry 
isn't like Lucius Malfoy joining the DEs, for instance. 

But whether or not the good guys do these things by mistake or ever 
realized they've made a mistake, I still think JKR obviously has a 
different view of those mistakes than she does the mistakes of bad 
guys. In the things from interviews I've read it often seems like 
readers see more mistakes than she does with her good guys. Perhaps 
more importantly, they see different kinds of mistakes too--
iow, "This character is being cruel and sadistic" as opposed to "he 
has a fiery temper, especially when someone hurts his friends!" The 
fact that many of these "mistakes" are never noted by anybody in 
canon, or shown to be a problem, encourages them. they usually have 
plenty of readers cheering for and defending them--which makes me 
think if this was supposed to be a mindgame, it was a failure.

Pippin:
> "Bad Guy" is a stereotype. But canon isn't divided into good people
> and Slytherins, it is at every moment divided into people who are
> choosing what is right and people who are choosing what is easy. JKR
> believes, and the books show, that it's easier to make that choice 
if
> you're brave. 

Magpie:
I don't see anybody ever choosing what's right over what's easy, so 
we'd better leave that aside. I do see brave people being the ones 
most able to be good. But you still wind up with a lot of those 
cowardly evil people--most of them--in Slytherin. There are bad 
people in other houses too, but if you're Sorted into Slytherin, 
whatever JKR says about being damaged or not, intelligent people 
should worry about your character. You can't only be brave if you're 
in Gryffindor, it's not impossible to be cowardly or bad if you're 
not a Slytherin. But thinking about that doesn't change the obvious 
way that Slytherins stand apart from the school from beginning to 
end. There's a reason JKR worries when people openly identify with 
that house and chuckles in understanding when people ask why they 
don't just get rid of them. 


> 
> > Magpie:
> > Why wouldn't the Hat be able look into your head and tell whether
> you  have Pureblood? 
> 
> Pippin:
> There's not supposed to be any detectable physical or magical
> difference between people from all-magical families  and everyone
> else. If there were, discrimination on that basis wouldn't be
> automatically be racist. It would be perfectly valid to have a House
> reserved for the different needs or abilities of those students, 
IMO. 

Magpie:
It works by magic. There's no reason the Sorting Hat can't know 
somebody's heritage if it needs to know their heritage. It's not 
outdated science, it's not science at all.


> Magpie"
>  I think Alla's point still stands that  saying "My school is going 
to
> be very academically challenging so you  have to be a certain
> intellectual level to get in" is different than  saying "No Jews." 
> 
> Pippin:
> Not in the way you think <g>. You're not supposed to be able to
> increase your IQ by studying, OTOH anybody can become a Jew-by-
choice.
> But I personally as a Jew don't have a problem with a school that
> excludes Jews because its mission is to teach members of another
> faith, as long as the intent or the result isn't that Jews receive 
an
> inferior education. That's not the case at Hogwarts. No one is 
saying
> that Muggleborns at Hogwarts don't get the finest magical education
> there is.

Magpie:
I don't understand how this is relevent. Yes, as you say, you have to 
go to Hogwarts to get the best magical education. But Slytherin's 
only wanting Purebloods was based on bigotry and the belief that 
Muggleborns didn't deserve a good magical education. 

Betsy:
As it is, to me it looks like Hogwarts is stuck with codifying
racism, but frowning on the students who, under Hogwart's direction,
support the racist belief Hogwarts itself must also support, since it
has a House dedicated to it. (catch 22?)

Magpie:
Slytherin seems to play an important part in the way this all works, 
doesn't it? They're very handy to have around.

-m