GoF Ch 17- 20 post DH look - DRAGONS

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 182011

> > Potioncat wrote:
> > I never once thought of the dragons as sentient.
> 
> Carol responds:
> Or how you're defining "sentient." <snip, rearrange, snip>
> but not *self*-conscious like a human being.
> 
> If you mean that you never thought of JKR's dragons as cunning 
> beasts with humanlike intelligence, I agree,

Mike:
My bad, and I dragged PC with me. I was the one that mis-used 
"sentient", when I meant self-aware or as you said self-conscious. 
Seems I've been mis-using that term for some time.


> > PC:
> > Oh, I just realised--if you're thinking of sentient dragons,
> > it would be very bad [harvesting for parts]. I just don't
> > think that's what JKR had in mind.

Mike:
See, told ya I messed PC up. ;)
Anyway PC, I agree that's not the way JKR portrayed *her* dragons.

My thing was that I went into this series expecting dragons to be 
more like Tolkien's version, when clearly they are not. Instead,
they are what Carol said they were:

> Anyway, while the dragon at Gringotts is no Smaug--it can't
> talk or hoard treasure and it isn't cunning--it's clearly 
> a beast, in other words, not a being

Mike:
Which led me to speculate on what all they did with them on the 
Romanian reserve.


> > > Mike:
> > > There seems to be a thriving market in the wizarding world
> > > for parts of dragons that would require their death. <snip>
> > > Are there enough dragons and do they die from natural causes
> > > fast enough to keep all these users in sufficient supply of
> > > their *materials*?

> > Potioncat:
> > We are civilized, aren't we? What would  be so bad about
> > managing the herd of dragons, choosing some for slaughter?
 --and--
> > 
> So I think we have a good chance that the handlers have to do
> some culling, dragons die, and perhaps some are raised as stock.

> Carol:
> I guess it's the idea of raising a wild *magical* creature 
> only to slaughter it that's troubling. 
>  -<snip, rearrange again>-
> and it seems as wrong to hunt them for the
> magical properties of their blood or horns


Mike now:
But why not? If they are indeed beasts, as you called them, what's 
wrong with culling the herd and selling off the unwanted/unneeded 
extras? Wouldn't any attempt at keeping the merchants supplied with 
marketable dragon parts at reasonable prices make poaching seem less
a profitable venture, especially since taking on dragons is so 
dangerous?


> Carol:
> I gather from FBAWTFT that certain species, such as the Romanian
> Longhorn (endangered because its horn is valuable as a potion
> ingredient) are being bred to increase their numbers.

Mike:
See, there you go. They breed them as we in the RL would raise
prime breeds of cattle. Once they get their numbers back up, what 
would be so wrong with responsibly supplying the potioneers with 
their valuable horns, instead of making those potion makers rely 
on poachers and other less savory means?


> Carol, who thinks that the MacFustys may harvest their dragons
> like cattle but can't imagine Charlie doing it

Mike:
What's so wrong with Charlie doing it too? Factoring in Gamp's Law, 
even wizards can't conjure food for an overgrowing dragon herd. 
Instead of letting the herd get too large and thereby becoming 
undernourished, or worse, starving, wouldn't it be better to 
harvest them? It would supply the reserve with what I'm sure are 
much needed resourses, i.e. money.


> Potioncat:
> Also, I'd almost think a dragon heart-string would have be very
> fresh---and not from a sick dragon. Just guessing of course.

Mike:
I agree, PC. Another reason for groups like Charlie's to 
responsibly harvest not just the sick and dying, but the 
healthy and overrepresented breeds.


> Carol:
> No doubt it's the more common varieties whose hide, blood,
> heart, etc. (but not eggs) are legal tradeable substances.

> > Potioncat:
> Or it could be like birds who lay a number of eggs, but the
> chances of even one chick surviving to adulthood is rather small.

Mike:
I think the handlers, at least Charlie's group, would step in much 
like our RL zookeepers do and help raise the young from egg onward. 
This would ensure a much higher survival rate, and would be *one* 
logical reason as to why trading in dragon eggs is illegal. Besides 
the danger of trying to raise your own dragon (even if you're 
Hagrid), most common wizards wouldn't have the knowledge or the 
wherewithall to properly raise a dragon from egg. Which would mean 
more wasted eggs, less dragons.



> > Potioncat:
> > Does anyone have FBAWTFT? 
> 
> Carol:
> I do. They're rated XXXXX,

Mike:
Is that like super-porn? (Sorry, I couldn't resist) <veg>

> Carol:
> but I only skimmed the relevant pages, including the
> Introduction (which answers some of Mike's questions,

Mike:
Wait, I have more. I don't have a copy of FB. 

> Carol:
> And there's something sublime about a dragon <snip>
> They're rare, they're magical, they're dangerous,

Mike:
They're magical? In what way? I've seen that they can breath fire,
I suppose that should be considered magic. But flying I don't. Are 
they magical because of their ability to resist magic, like Giants, 
as Sirius explained. Is it just that their blood, horns and such
have magical properties that can be used for potions or whatever?

Or can they *do* magical things? Educate me, please!


> Carol:
> But say that dragons had the intelligence of Buckbeak and at
> least some capacity for loyalty. It would seem wrong to kill
> them for their magical properties then, wouldn't it?
>
> Buckbeak is at least capable of forming attachments to certain
> humans. I don't think that JKR's dragons have that capacity.

Mike:
Do you think dragons were as intelligent (or as self-aware) as 
hippogriffs? Was it just their nature to not bond with humans, 
like hippogriffs seemingly could? Or were they a lower form of
life than hippogriffs? What does FBAWTFT tell us?



> > Potioncat:
> > Was there a brochure on dragonkeepers in OoP?
> 
> Carol:
> Nope.  <snip>
> No doubt there's a pamphlet on dragon keeping (Charlie must
> have read one), 

Mike:
I just wanted to add in here that I wish we would have gotten
more of Charlie and his dragons. I would really liked to have
seen Charlie and his mates play a bigger part. Especially if 
it would have been with the dragons, say, kicking some Giant 
butt!

Mike, wondering if Charlie was allowed to ride his dragons, seeing
as how the Trio got to ride one