GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look/ Snape and Harry and Gargoyles

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 182155

Alla: >
> Now, when we are talking about Snape doing anything of his own
> accord, anything of good faith, I mean, that I find rather
laughable.
> IMO of course.

Potioncat:
I don't understand. We know that Snape is protecting Harry as an
atonement to Lily. We know he is serving DD. I don't see why he would
go against either of those goals in this case. Why is it laughable?
<SNIP>

Alla:

I am sorry, I should have been more specific. I find laughable that 
Snape will do something HERE on his own initiative, here in this 
fragment. Him serving Dumbledore is of course we know about, we also 
know that even though Snape initially disagrees with Dumbledore's 
plan ( if we take position that Dumbledore does not know that Harry 
will live), he goes along with it, because Dumbledore wants him to.

So, sure I agree that Snape is serving Dumbledore, I also agree that 
Snape is protecting Harry's **life** as service to Dumbledore, 
atonement to Lily, not so sure about. I mean he switched sides as 
atonement for her death, yes, but he surely does not resist of 
Dumbledore's plan, so that tells me that serving Dumbledore is 
Snape's primary goal, IMO.


Alla:
> No, really why? What can be simpler and more effective than to send
> Harry straight up to Dumbledore's office if Snape really wants to
> help that is?

Potioncat:
Because DD is coming down. Because Snape just left the office and
thinks there is something Harry shouldn't see? Becaue it would slow
down rather speed up the process for Harry to go up. Because Snape
doesn't know that moments may matter. And trust me, knowing kids this
age, things are rarely as drastic as they make them out to be.
Because this is the man who cruelly punishes Gryffindors by sending
them to the forest with Hagrid. BTW, did we ever figure out who
planned the first such punishment?


Alla:

I already agreed that if Dumbledore ordered Snape to do it, I find it 
plausible condition upon the existence of that camera or whatever 
instrument Dumbledore can observe Harry or hear from his office, etc. 
So the answer that DD is coming down I do not think very relevant 
anymore 
I was asking why not to give Harry the password if Dumbledore did not 
ask Snape to do anything and Snape of his own kind heart decides to 
help.

And yes, know kids of this age, had been a kid of that age  couple 
decades ago, have a brother who was that age at some point, and you 
know, if at the age of fourteen we thought that there is a problem we 
need to share with adults, it usually was a problem,  because we did 
not care much for sharing that many problems with adults at that age.

And we were, kids who were not particularly rebellious or anything 
like that and still did not want to share problems that we considered 
much. We had good relationship with our parents, etc,  but still 
would want to talk if the problem is big in our eyes.

I would think that considering Harry's background and him not 
trusting adults much, it should alarm Snape twice or more, if he 
indeed comes to adult for help, Harry that is.

Do we really want to talk about Snape's reign as Headmaster? When 
students were regularly being used as guinea pigs  and he did 
nothing. Yes, yes, I know he had a cover to protect. Does not inspire 
much respect still.



Potioncat:
<SNIP>
But the point isn't "is Harry important?", it's "should Harry go up?"
The scene is written to look as if Snape is keeping Harry from DD,
when in fact, he's keeping Harry near DD.

Alla:

No, **my** point is that Harry should go up because he is important, 
even if any other student may have deemed not to go up.

Potioncat;
I know you think Snape was trying to hinder Harry, while I think he
was actually helping. There have been several scenes between Harry
and Snape that have looked like nothing more than Snape goading him,
but in fact had a different purpose. I think it was Carol who pointed
out Snape's reaction to Harry sneaking out of the castle.

The only moment I can think of that doesn't seem to have a purpose is
the "Oops" when Harry's potion sample breaks. Are there any others?


Alla:

LOLOLOLOL. Over the years of Snape debates I had heard purposes 
invented to practically every incident of Snape v Harry. Half of them 
in my opinion do not stand logical scrutiny at all, but the fact that 
purpose can be invented really does not tell me much.

For example, you think that OOOPs does not have any purpose and I 
agree with you, well, do you remember that it was not really Snape 
who did it, but it broke down on its own?

Do I think this is plausible? Not at all, but hey, it is an opinion 
as any other.

I think more than half of Snape's talking at Harry has no legitimate 
purpose whatsoever, except Snape hurting the boy.

Recently mentioned PoA incident –  purpose, what purpose?

Snape insulting Hermione's teeth? I am pretty sure somebody came up 
with purpose for that as well, does not mean that I give any value to 
the purpose whatever it is.

Just as I am sure my opinions can be of value or no value of course.

Snape taking Harry's book away in PS? Sadism, pure sadism in my mind. 
Snape reading newspaper about Harry in class even bigger sadism if 
you ask me.

Snape assigning Neville to cut toadthings? Yeah, IMO no purpose 
whatsoever except torment.

I know one thing, to me canon supports Snape's hating Harry till his 
bitter end with his answer to Dumbledore.

JMO

Alla