GoF Ch 30 post DH look

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 182185

Alla quoted:
>
> "He wanted to touch it, to find out what it felt like, but nearly 
four years' experience of the magical world told him that sticking 
his hand into a bowl full of some unknown substance was a very stupid
 thing to do. He therefore pulled his wand out of the inside of his
robes, cast a nervous look around the office, looked back at the
contents of the basin, and prodded them" - p.583.
> 
Alla commented:
> 
> LOL, Harry are you sure you will remember this next year?

Carol responds:
I'm sure that Harry does remember, quite clearly, that the Pensieve
taught him things that he couldn't have known otherwise. In GoF, he
doesn't know what he's doing; he's just curious and half-accidentally
ends up in the memory. In OoP, he knows what he's doing (Snape has put
three memories in the Pensieve and he's about to enter at least one of
them. Torn between guilt (Snape's memories are none of his business)
and curiosity, he chooses curiosity. He wants to know what's in
Snape's head regardless of consequences. It seems to me that Harry has
a lot in common with young Severus, who wanted to know what was in the
Shrieking Shack (and confirm his theory, if possible) regardless of
consequences. "Curiosity is not a sin, Harry." Maybe not, but it
killed the cat. And entering a Pensieve memory without permission is
just as invasive, just as much a violation of privacy, as Legilimency.
Evidently, Wizards have different standards of right and wrong than
Muggles, or perhaps less regard for the rights of the individual than
Western Muggles. 
 
> "Dumbledore did not blink, look around at Harry, or indeed move at 
> all. And that, in Harry's opinion settled the matter. Dumbledore 
> wouldn't ignore him like that" - p.586
> 
> Alla:
> 
> LOL, are you sure Harry? You just wait till next year.

Carol:
True. There's a touch of ironic foreshadowing here. But DD does have
what he considers to be a good reason for avoiding Harry (and,
especially, Harry's eyes) in OoP.
> 
> 
> "Then Harry heard, quite distinctly, from Dumbledore's other side, a 
> familiar, growling voice saying, "Filth" - p.587
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Here we go that filth word again, but read on. Moody bothers me here 
> a great deal, I vaguely remember we discussed him here, but I am 
> pretty sure it was rather long time ago and certainly we did not 
> rediscuss it as often as some other topics, hehe.

<snip quote>
> Alla:
> 
> I am sorry, what? Not that I am surprised to see another lovely 
moment of WW justtice system in action. Here we have a witness who 
made a deal with prosecution in exchange for information, and Moody,
that hard working fighter of dark wizards suggests to violate the 
deal AFTER witness gives an information and just throw him back as
dessert to dementors. <snip>

> So, yeah, back to Moody. Um, wrong and unethical behavior?

Carol responds:
I agree with you that Moody's remarks here are disturbing. Dumbledore
is in the right, IMO, and not only because of the Dementors. Good guys
don't make a deal with bad guys and then renege on it. Either don't do
the deal at all or keep your word.

Regarding "filth," I think it means (figuratively) "refuse" (REFF
yoos, not ree FYOOZ) or "garbage," something slimy and scummy and
disgusting--a useful word for describing someone you hate and despise
and consider contemptible without resorting to obscenity. But in the
Muggle world, at least in the West, even "filth" has rights.

BTW, Dumbledore is showing his wisdom here, IMO. His standards of
justice are higher than Moody's. But, then, Moody is a man of action,
not a thinker. At least, if Sirius Black is right, he never killed if
he could avoid it. But he, like Snape and Crouch and apparently most
of the WW (Arthur Weasley is the only other exception that I can think
of, other than those like Black and Hagrid who have actually
experienced Azkaban) sees nothing wrong with throwing criminals and
Dark Wizards to the Dementors. Even Harry says of Wormtail, "Let the
Dementors have him." Bravo, Dumbledore, in this regard, at least.
 
> "Yes, they were talking about Neville's parents," said Dumbledore.
"His father, Frank, was an Auror just like Professor Moody. He and his
wife were tortured for information about Voldemort's whereabouts after
he lost his powers, as you heard" - 
> p.602.
> 
> ********
> Alla:
> 
> Why JKR, why, why do you feel that you should make such a change? I
 could care less if Alice Longbottom was an auror or not, but if in 
your head she was not initially, I wish you would stick to your guts
and would not add an extra working woman to appease people (if that 
is what it is)

Carol responds:
I agree. Of course, it's possible that JKR just forgot that Alice
wasn't an Auror like Frank. She said in a recent interview that she
doesn't reread her books after they're published, a serious mistake,
IMO. She needs to be thoroughly familiar with what she's already said
and know where to look to check her facts. (Sidenote: We see a lot of
inconsistencies that the consistency editors didn't catch. I wonder
what they *did* catch. Mostly capitalization and spelling of names and
spells, I suppose, and even there they let "anti-Disapparation"
through in OoP when it's "(Dis)apparition" or, at least, "Apparition"
elsewhere.)

> "No," said Dumbledore, his voice full of bitterness Harry had never 
> heard before. "They are insane" - p.603
 
> Alla:
> 
> Why bitterness in Dumbledore's voice, anybody has a guess? I mean 
obviously he would be sad about their fates, but it is not saddness,
it is bitterness. Because he could not save them? Because it reminds
him of Arianna's fate?
> 
> Anything?
>
Carol:
We're dealing with the ambiguity of the English language here.
"Bitter(ness)" has several definitions. The one that I think applies
(using the adjective definition rather than the noun) is "expressive
of severe pain, grief, or regret" (very much like Snape's remorse). If
that's what DD felt, he must have blamed himself for not protecting
the Longbottoms, for thinking, like everyone else, that the danger was
over (at least, until LV returned). It could also mean "distasteful or
distressing to the mind." I doubt that it means "marked by cynicism
and rancor," the type of bitterness that we sometimes encounter in
Snape. And, yes. I'm sure that the Longbottoms' fate does remind him
of Ariana's (though he wasn't responsible for her mental and emotional
state before her death, only for not protecting her or paying her
sufficient attention. It's too late to help her and too late to help
the Longbottoms, and, IMO, he feels a bitter (galling and deeply
distressing) regret for both. We don't see much of this side of him,
but it's good to know that it exists.

Carol, irrelevantly thinking that "anti-Disapparition/-ation" sounds
like "antidisestablishmentariansim"