GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look/ Snape and Harry redux

[littleleahstill]

No: HPFGUIDX 182252

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > CaroL
> > And I submit that those people were killed before the Potters but
> > after the Prophecy was known. All of the people named, including 
the
> > Potters, were killed within a short time after the photograph was
> > taken, and the Prophecy had been revealed considerably more than
> > fifteen months before the Potters' deaths. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Not that I think it matters, I mean Voldemort kept killing other 
> people till he gathered the knowledge of how to kill prophecy 
couple, 
> so what? Does not mean IMO that prophecy couple was not his 
favorite 
> target, but I do not think we can say with certainty that 
photograph 
> was taken after prophecy was already made.
> 
> I would think Potters would not have been on photograph and in 
hiding 
> then.

Leah: The Potters seem to have been in 'moderate' hiding after Snape 
gave his warning.  The Fidelius charm was only in place for around a 
week (I think we learn that in POA), after DD gets a warning 
(presumably again from his spy, Snape) that Voldemort is about to 
attack.  We know from Lily's letter written after Harry's first 
birthday that the Potters' movements were restricted, but they could 
still be visited, so perhaps the Order was meeting at the Potters.  
In any case, I don't see it's an either/or question as to Harry and 
Order members, Voldemort was killing off the opposition, he then 
needed to deal with the child he had identified as the One, and I 
think it's safe to assume that if he had killed Harry, he would have 
then have carried on killing those opposing him.



> 
> Carol:
> <SNIP>
> ( Why should the Potters do better than the Prewitt
> > brothers, who between them took five DEs to kill?
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Because I do not remember reading that they defied Voldemort three 
> times, that's why.#


Leah:
This is from Pottercast 130, interview with JKR:

'MA: What about the three times, the thrice defying of Voldemort?

JKR: Of James and Lily?

MA: Of Neville's parents. Well, James and Lily too.

JKR: Well it depends how you take defying, doesn't it? If you're 
counting, well which I do, any time you arrested one of his 
henchmen, any time you escaped him, any time you thwarted him. 
That's what he's looking for. (SU: Yeah.) And both couple qualified 
because they were both fighting. Also James and Lily turned him 
down, that's established in Philosopher's Stone. He wanted them, 
(SU: Wow.) and they wouldn't come over, so that's one strike against 
them before they were even out of their teens.'

Leah: Apart from the rather odd idea that Voldemort would even have 
considered recruiting a Muggleborn, this quote indicates that the 
Potters did not have to do anything particularly out of the ordinary 
as Order members to defy thrice.  Looking at what JKR says there, 
someone like Moody must have defied Voldemort a lot more than three 
times, and it's quite possible that the Prewitts did too.  We don't 
hear about their defiance particularly because it's not relevant - 
they may have defied Voldemort fifteen times but they're not parents 
of a child born as the seventh month dies.  So there is nothing to 
indicate that James and Lily would be any less vulnerable than other 
Order members if Voldemort did not know the prophecy.   



> 
> Carol: 
> > You don't seem to understand that Voldemort was to all intents 
and
> > purposes immortal because of the Horcruxes. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yeah, I do. I also understand that all it takes to destroy him is 
to 
> destroy his horcruxes one by one and teenagers seem to do quite 
well. 
> **Teenagers** and two of who, were without any special abilities. 
> Just imagine Dumbledore telling order members what the things are 
and 
> sending them to find those things. I sincerely doubt for example 
that 
> Arthur Weasley would have been considered less true Gryff than his 
> son.

Leah: But first of all, Dumbledore has to establish that Voldemort 
even has horcruxes. He may suspect something from Voldemort's 
appearance, but surely he can not know for certain that Voldemort 
has succeeded until he survives the rebounding AK at Godric's 
Hollow.  (Also in the Pottercast interview, (available at the 
Lexicon), JKR commented that horcruxes were invented by Herpo the 
Foul but that they were certainly not common, so it wouldn't be a 
simple supposition to make. DD isn't able to ascertain how many 
Horcruxes there are until HBP. Then there is the Diary episode-in a 
non-Prophecy world, there is absolutely no reason why the Diary 
should come to Dumbledore's attention.  As for getting venom from 
the Basilisk, again we don't know what would have happened without 
Godric's Hollow.  If Voldemort won the war,which is quite possible, 
DD would certainly not be at Hogwarts.  (And there's the little 
Hallows problem - if DD happens to be the one to find the Peverall 
ring, and tries to access the Stone, in a non-Prophecy world, 
DESnape isn't going to be on hand to save him.   
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing convinces me that horcruxes cannot be destroyed by 
> somebody else. I say Several people would destroy horcruxes, no 
> matter how 
> many years it takes and then somebody finish off Voldemort - 
without 
> Harry battling him. 

I agree it doesn't have to be Harry destroying the horcruxes, and 
yes, provided DD works out without the benefit of Godric's Hollow 
that Voldemort is immortal, and manages to get access to basilisk 
venom, then no doubt, the horcruxes could be destroyed. But as you 
say, it could take years.  Voldemort could easily be ruling the WW 
by say, 1983 if there were no Godric's Hollow. 

Leah 


>