Dumbledore and Snape that night WAS: Re: GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 182309

> Potioncat:
> *******************
> Chapter 33 p 676 Scholastic ed.
> "Well, Severus? What message does LV have for me?"
> 
> "No---no message---I'm here on my own account!"

> Potioncat:
> Snape is waiting, afraid. DD arrives either in a temper or on the 
> offensive. I have the feeling that DE!Snape and DD have met before. 
> DD seems to think there is a message from LV, Snape seems to think 
DD 
> might kill him. Obviously, there is some post-Hogwarts history 
> between them. "I'm here on my own account" makes it sounds as if 
> Snape has been a messenger boy before; and the last time must not 
> have gone well.

zgirnius:
I do not agree that this scene establishes post-Hogwarts history 
between Albus and Severus. I think it is quite plausible that the 
only such history may be that given us elsewhere in canon - namely, 
that Severus was caught eavesdropping on Albus's interview with 
Trelawney.

I do see why this passage might bring you to a different conclusion, 
however. If there is no history other than the incident at the Hog's 
Head, how does Albus know Snape is a Death Eater? Severus had to 
request this meeting in the first place. He may have indicated he was 
a Death Eater in setting that meeting up. Or, Dumbledore may have 
some reason to believe Voldemort has heard at least part of the 
prophecy. 

Why would he think Snape had a message from Voldemort? Again, Snape 
might have led him to believe this in arranging the meeting. Snape's 
own statement, that he is there on his own account, does not imply he 
has been there on someone else's before; it is a simple negation of 
what ALbus suggests.

There are two reasons I do not believe there was former history. 
First, Snape's DE past seems to have been a secret not known to the 
Order. Prior to the arrangement Albus reached with Snape in this 
scene, I see no reason he would keep Snape's DE role secret from 
others.

Second, Voldemort seems to have thought that Snape would be able to 
worm his way into a job at Hogwarts. Since he has no idea Snape has 
already betrayed him at this point, I think he should not expect this 
of a Death Eater he has sent to Albus as a messenger in the past. In 
Spinner's End, the whole "tale of remorse" line Snape feeds 
Bellatrix, is apparently supposed to be something that happened post-
GH, not something Voldemort suggested pre-GH.

> Potioncat:
> Severus had to screw up some courage to even come to DD. It's not 
> like he thought to himself that he'd drop in at Hogwarts and 
network. 
> Even knowing that he's bringing important information to DD, he's 
> afraid. 

zgirnius:
I agree he is afraid of Albus, but I do not believe that is all he is 
afraid of. A problem with moseying into Hogwarts to schmooze with the 
big guy, is that it is definitely better if Voldemort never even 
knows the meeting took place. Some random, remote hilltop where no 
other wizard has a reason to be, seems a far better place for this 
meeting than a schjool full of teachers and students.

> Potioncat:
> At any rate, DD's purpose in protecting the Potters is to 
> protect the Chosen One a while longer. I don't think DD expects a 
> baby to defeat LV.  So now I'm not sure if we have Order Leader DD 
> asking for something or if we have DD testing Severus. Or a little 
of 
> both.

zgirnius:
I do think Dumbledore would be interested in protecting "the one with 
the power to defeat the Dark Lord". I also think Snape would expect 
this of him; it is the reason I think he was gaping at him for a 
moment before making his bargain. He expected it was a thing 
Dumbledore would do regardless.

So in that sense, he was testing Severus. But I also think he saw the 
possibilities of having a Death Eater in his debt. (Though, the 
extent to which it would prove useful would depend on the Death 
Eater. Snape probably exceeded Albus's wildest expectations...Albus 
*was* very fortunate to have him.)