Dumbledore and Snape that night WAS: Re: GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 182349

In post 182309  zgirnius wrote:
> Why would he think Snape had a message from Voldemort? Again, Snape 
> might have led him to believe this in arranging the meeting. 
Snape's 
> own statement, that he is there on his own account, does not imply 
he 
> has been there on someone else's before; it is a simple negation of 
„« what ALbus suggests.
> 
> There are two reasons I do not believe there was former history. 
> First, Snape's DE past seems to have been a secret not known to the 
> Order. Prior to the arrangement Albus reached with Snape in this 
> scene, I see no reason he would keep Snape's DE role secret from 
„« others.

Potioncat:
Given the somewhat quirky way DD speaks, this could be true.  On the 
other hand, keeping secrets is what Albus does best. We don't know 
what exactly the Order did during the first war. They sure don't do 
much in the second one. I doubt they hunted down DEs---more likely 
responded to situations, in the same way they responded to the battle 
at the MoM. But I think you have a good point, there would be no 
reason not to tell the Order that Snape is a DE.


> Zara:
> Second, Voldemort seems to have thought that Snape would be able to 
> worm his way into a job at Hogwarts. Since he has no idea Snape has 
> already betrayed him at this point, I think he should not expect 
this 
> of a Death Eater he has sent to Albus as a messenger in the past. 
In 
> Spinner's End, the whole "tale of remorse" line Snape feeds 
> Bellatrix, is apparently supposed to be something that happened 
post-
„« GH, not something Voldemort suggested pre-GH.

Potioncat:
I'm not so sure. I thought DD was supposed to know that Snape was a 
DE when he hired him. If DD had no reason to think Snape was a DE, 
Snape had no reason for the "tale of remorse". Speaking of which, 
that "tale of remorse" story to Bella was really true. Sort of. 
Besides, if Snape had been a messenger, it would give him the chance 
to offer his services. Just to clarify--I know DD knew Snape was a DE 
when he hired him. I thought LV had Snape pretend to switch sides 
when he went to work at Hogwarts. Or do you think LV kept Snape under 
wraps so that he could ask for the job as if he were not a DE? That 
is, LV did not know that DD knew of DE!Snape. In that case, Trelawney 
may have been right about part of Snape's motives that day.


 
> 
> zgirnius:
> I agree he is afraid of Albus, but I do not believe that is all he 
is 
> afraid of. A problem with moseying into Hogwarts to schmooze with 
the 
> big guy, is that it is definitely better if Voldemort never even 
> knows the meeting took place. Some random, remote hilltop where no 
> other wizard has a reason to be, seems a far better place for this 
„« meeting than a schjool full of teachers and students.

Potioncat:
I didn't word that very well. I didn't really mean he could walk into 
Hogwarts. I mean, it would seem if Snape's intent was to offer 
information to DD, why would he be so frightened of DD? He is, in 
effect, giving the enemy information. Like you, I think part of his 
fear on the hill was that he would be seen by the wrong person. But 
he seems very afraid of DD.  


> zgirnius:
> So in that sense, he was testing Severus. But I also think he saw 
the 
> possibilities of having a Death Eater in his debt. (Though, the 
> extent to which it would prove useful would depend on the Death 
> Eater. Snape probably exceeded Albus's wildest expectations...Albus 
> *was* very fortunate to have him.)

Potioncat:
Good point. Snape wouldn't have expected DD to ask anything of him. 
But it's very clear, in the way this conversation goes, that Snape is 
completely motivated to protect Lily. It's still interesting to me 
that Narcissa will ask for a magical vow from her friend, but DD does 
not ask one of his enemy.


In post 182325 "Ceridwen" wrote:
> Ceridwen:
> I'm not surprised Snape asks not to be killed.  Dumbledore, 
still "a 
> blinding, jagged jet of white light," can disarm him.  He hasn't 
even 
> settled into corporeal form again to do this.  I didn't notice this 
„« when I read the passage whole in the book.  Thanks.

Potioncat:
Oh, very good point. Snape is already very frightened and this 
happens.
> 
> Ceridwen:
 
> So, Snape as one of the few students who have actually faced 
> Dumbledore as headmaster, and Snape as possibly the only Death 
Eater 
> to have done so, and Snape being junior to the Death Eaters who had 
> Dumbledore as their teacher, could well have been sent on such a 
„« mission. Why would LV discount this resource?

Potioncat:
But would LV know about this? Of course, Snape could have said that 
he had been in DD's office without really saying why. You know, it 
could be the opposite too. The other former Hogwarts students may 
have had pretty bad reputations at school. So that Snape, who was a 
good student and kept his head down, would be a good candidate as a 
Slytherin teacher.

I'm not sure, one way or the other about events post-Hogwarts, but 
Snape seems so very afraid at the meeting. There seems to be some 
reason in his mind that he might just be killed. I'd like to know why.