In the Mind ...(was Re: Redemption - who needed it? )

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 182883

---  "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:
>...
> 
> 
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > <snip>  The connection between Harry and Voldemort's
> > minds has been a big on-going theme. ...
> > 
> > Previously, Voldemort could inject thoughts and ideas into
> > Harry mind, but we don't know that he had the same type or
> > extent of connection that Harry has with him. ...
> 
> Mike:
> I'll go you one further in this on-going theme. I not only
> think that Voldemort can't visit Harry's mind, I don't think 
> he can implant thoughts or scenes into it either. I think LV
> is (or was) aware when Harry was visiting his mind and could
> then conjure up images or scenes for Harry's consumption, but
> they were images or scenes playing within his own mind. 
> ...I think Voldemort visualized himself torturing Sirius 
> in the Hall of Prophecies and Harry saw that, in OotP.

bboyminn:

I think your point is so subtle that the difference between us
in a matter of perspective and perception. Though, I must 
admit that I can't quite agree with Voldemort knowing Harry
was in his mind. I think more likely Voldemort had a sense of
when Harry was most vulnerable and therefore accessable, such
as when Harry was asleep. So, in those times of vulnerability
and accessability, Voldemort concentrated really hard on the
thoughts he wants Harry to see.

So, in that aspect, I guess I agree with you. Voldemort is
not pushing thoughts into Harry mind, he is having strong
thoughts in the hopes that Harry will, in a sense, come and
get them.

But I just can't accept that Voldemort knows when Harry is in
his mind. That just doesn't work for the rest of the books
in the series.

However, in your defense, consider this, did Voldemort spend 
all his time, day and night, concentrating on the thoughts he
wanted Harry to see? That seems a very boring and tedious 
existance. 

Now we know Harry is vulnerable when he sleeps, but then, 
why was Voldemort projecting the thought about Sirius being
tortured at the MoM late in the afternoon on a school day?
Why would he think Harry was vulnerable and sensitive at
that time of day? That would seem a time when Harry would
be too distracted by schoolwork and exams to receive any
kind of thought transfer. So, he was either 'transmitting'
ALL the time, or he just got luck, or he knew something.

> Mike: 
> 
> Curiously, in DH, Voldemort doesn't seem to be aware that 
> Harry is visiting his mind any more. That or he doesn't care,
> which I find hard to believe. Why did he stop the Occlumency 
> that DD said he was employing throughout HBP?
> 

bboyminn:

That's what I mean about Voldemort knowing Harry is in his
mind not being consistent with the rest of the series. 

I believe Voldemort IS employing Occlumency against Harry but
when he is emotional or distracted or extremely tired, he
drops his guard and that allows Harry to get in. It must take
a constant effort, even if the effort is in the background,
to employ Occulmency in this manner against Harry.

I believe as Voldemort grows both more weary and concerned,
yet at the same time, more confident, he lowers his guard.
Perhaps because he underestimates Harry. Or because he is
simply too distracted to maintain the 'shield'. 

The cursious thing is that there does seem to come a point
when Harry can both access Voldemort at will and block 
Voldemort from his own mind. Has Voldemort's concentration 
just slipped so badly, or are we seeing Harry get past 
Voldemort's defenses? 

Perhaps, Occlumency prevents thoughts from leaking out of 
Voldemort's mind and into Harry's unbidden, but do not block
Harry's willful access. In a sense, since Harry is carrying 
a part of Voldemort, the access to Voldemort's mind is 
soul-to-soul and nothing can block it. But Occlumency can, 
as I speculated, stop the leaks out of Voldemort's mind.

Think about the final confrontation between Harry and 
Voldemort. If Voldemort had sensed Harry in his mind, he
could have done what I suspect all good hyper-sensitive
dualer do. He could have sent false information to his
opponent to trick him into making the first move and
revealing himself and his intent. Harry's victory was tied
to his casting a counter-curse against Voldemort at the
exact instant the Voldemort sent a curse at him. The 
slightest flaw in timing, and it wouldn't have worked; Harry
would be dead. 

So, it seems critical to me in that last and final battle
that Voldemort NOT know that Harry is in his mind.

This connnection is tricky business.

Steve/bboyminn