CHAPDISC: DH33, The Prince's Tale

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 184897

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/184853
> Carol:
> I think a better comparison would be Regulus, intelligent like
> Severus but taken in by the propaganda (an no doubt influenced,
> as Severus was, by the pro-Voldemort atomosphere of Slytherin
> House.

Mike:
I heartily agree with you, Carol. It's my belief that Voldemort 
wasn't showing his true intentions to any but his closest DEs, at 
this point in time. So Severus and Regulus would have only seen this 
group as an alternative organization, in the sense of alternative 
rock music. It wasn't something everybody enjoyed or agreed with, but 
all indications were that it wasn't illegal or subversive in the 
treasonous vein. Just different.


> Carol:
> It's not commendable, obviously. It's his biggest mistake next to
> revealing the Prophecy to Voldemort.

Mike:
I think joining the DEs is Snape's biggest mistake. Revealing the 
prophesy was an offshoot of this first mistake. His revealing of the 
prophesy was him simply performing his duty as a good DE, from his 
pov. As far as his own life is concerned, joining up was Snape's 
number one mistake, to my way of looking at it.

BTW, I have no proof but I'm convinced that Snape joined LV right out 
of school at the very least. He may have joined at the same time as 
Regulus which by my reckoning would have been Sev's 7th year.


> Carol:
> But he regrets his mistakes and works all his adult life to atone
> for them, <snip>
> Is he [Regulus], too, beyond the pale, once a DE, always a DE?

Mike:
I know he does, which makes him better than the rest of the DEs by 
far. And Regulus too. 

But don't you see the difference? Regulus sees the error of his ways 
very early on, by pegging Voldemort for what he was. He gives up his 
life in an attempt to make Voldemort mortal. 

Snape stayed with the DEs for at least three years. There is no 
indication that he found anything wrong with being a DE during this 
time. And he even made that other big mistake (revealing the 
prophesy) while being a good DE. My read is that had it not been Lily 
that Voldemort was going after, he would have remained a loyal DE.


> Carol:
> If that's the way you see it, I disagree wholeheartedly.
> (What's the point of repentance if it doesn't earn forgiveness?
> Might as well remain a DE.)

Mike:
I'd feel the same way about someone who joined the KKK, or other like 
organizatons and hung in with them for as long as Severus hung with 
the DEs. The poorness of character indicated by these actions is what 
makes me take the position I do. God may forgive someone like him, 
but I don't have to and won't. 

People have talked about Slytherin as being treated as "the other". 
Well, the DEs and Severus with them have reduced the non LV 
supporters as the other. It's a mindset I want no part of, and it's a 
character flaw that is part of their make-up, not something that was 
learned or forced into. You may not agree, but that's where I'm 
coming from.




> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/184859
> > Mike:
> > It wasn't until Snape calls her "Mudblood", a slur 
> > she knew he was using with some regularity, that 
> > she decides enough is enough. 
> 
> Montavilla47:
> Yeah, this is what I don't understand.  Was it okay with Lily that
> Snape was using the word with some regularity as long as he didn't
> apply it to her?  If so, why?  If not, then why didn't she
> complain about it before?  Because I kind of get the idea that if
> she had, he'd have stopped using it pronto.

Mike:
But it's much different when it happens to you, isn't it? I doubt 
Severus ever used that term in front of Lily, so she would only have 
heard it from others. She may have denied it, or that may have been 
one of the things she was making excuses for him. But she can't deny 
it now, and she won't make any excuses for him this time.

Besides, I do have a feeling that she most likely did complain to 
Severus about it. But Severus was pretty good at changing the subject 
or dodging the question, wasn't he? It is an indication, imo, that he 
was conflicted between his new Slyth friends and remaining in Lily's 
good steads. It seems he chose to become an accepted member of the 
Slytherin hate team and hoped he could keep pulling the wool over 
Lily's eyes.

Ironic, isn't it, that he kept hoping to expose Potter and his mates 
to Lily, and instead Potter exposed Severus to Lily.




> Montavilla47:
> I agree with you.  What the heck was he thinking?  I did expect
> better from the guy who called himself "The Half-Blood Prince."

Mike:
It may be unfair, but I'll always expect better of those with the 
intelligence to know better than I will the easily duped. 


> Montavilla47:
> Yep.  Can't disagree with you--except that there's a little wiggle
> room in that he might not have joined immediately after school
> (or, as some suspect, while he was *in* school).
> 
> But does that mean that sin can never be washed away?

Mike:
See above. It does in my eyes. It's the combinations of all the 
factors the encompassed the Snape experience, not simply that he 
joined. YMMV

Mike