Chapter 33 discussion

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 184915

Carol summarized Chapter 33 in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/184812>:

<< Sirius, sitting across from him, says unhappily that his whole
family have been in Slytherin. After placating James by saying that
maybe he'll break the tradition, >>

You and I have always disagreed on what is in Sirius's mind when he
says these things. I believe we agree that when James dissed
Slytherin, Sirius thought James might reject his friendship because of
his Slytherin family. You think Sirius is "unhappily" scared of losing
James's friendship. I think Sirius is poised to return an attack if
one comes, or to resume friendliness if no attack comes. I guess the
adverb I would use is 'guardedly'. 

I don't agree that Sirius said he might not be in Slytherin just to
'placate' James. I believe that Sirius had long been thinking of
joining a different House as a way of annoying his parents and
avoiding his cousin Bellatrix. I think that when he told James he
might 'break the tradition', he didn't mean 'Please like me, I'll
believe whatever you believe and not do anything you condemn' (altho'
that is the kind of things that many dogs would say) (but knock over
the trashcan to eat the garbage anyway). I think he meant: 'Since
we're friends now, I'll tell you my secret plan.'

Nor do I believe that Sirius chose Gryffindor just to be with James.
Perhaps he had already considered Gryffindor House as the one his
family most disliked, altho' I think he hadn't thought that far ahead.
I think it was the Sorting Hat that looked in his head and saw 'Not
Slytherin!' on top. The Hat could see that he was too arrogant for
Hufflepuff and too rowdy for Ravenclaw, so 'better be -- GRYFFINDOR!'

<< Snape says that he thought Dumbledore was going to keep Lily safe,
and Dumbledore responds that the Potters put their faith in the wrong
person. He asks whether Snape did the same thing, hoping that
Voldemort would spare Lily, >>

>From the first time I read that scene, I wonder if Dumbledore or
Rowling secretly meant that *Dumbledore* is the wrong person in whom
Snape placed his trust.

<< He asks Snape to keep an eye on Quirrell for him. >>

I thought of mentioning this in my reply to JLyon's "Dumbledore's
Worthless" post
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/184793>, saying
<< This is with his mastery of Legillimency not detecting
Quirellmort>> but I decided that my reply was only about Book 2 so I
didn't point out that Snape was DD's way of dealing with Quirrelmort.

<< 11. How in the world did the Muggle Evanses get through the barrier
onto Platform 9 3/4 (or is this scene a Flint)? >>

Remember in Book 1, Hagrid handed Harry "[His] ticket fer Hogwarts ...
First o' September -- King's Cross -- it's all on yer ticket." It
seemed to me from a very early date that the ticket was needed for
entering Platform 9 3/4 rather than for boarding the train. Wizarding
parents would know where to pick up Platform 9 3/4 passes for their
kids and everyone seeing the kids off. The person who comes to explain
to Muggle parents about Hogwarts could either tell them where to get
the passes (presumably somewhere in Diagon Alley, where they have to
go anyway to get school supplies) or could just give the passes to the
parents.

<< 21. Did this chapter change or confirm your view of Snape? What
surprised you? What disappointed you? How did you feel at the end of
the chapter the first time through? >>

Montavilla47 replied to question 21 in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/184815>:

<< It confirmed my view of Snape as being Dumbledore's man. I was
surprised at how callous Lily and Dumbledore were towards Snape. I was
disappointed in how manipulative Dumbledore was. >>

My reaction was much the same as Montavilla47's. I was really shocked
and disappointed that DD hadn't become more friendly or fatherly to
Snape after all those years of working together. 

I knew it was going to be LOLLIPOPS, but I still *wish* it had been
Snape reaching a philosophical conclusion that murder is evil and
bigotry against Muggleborns is stupid. I had long wondered what was
DD's absolute proof that Snape was on his side, and the silver doe
Patronus was it for LOLLIPOPS!Snape, and I still can't think what it
would be for conscience!Snape. 

jkoney65 wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/184831>:

<< The whole noble (at least in his mind) thought of never telling
anyone made him look like he was trying to set himself up as some
trajic character in a second rate story. >>

It never occured to me that Snape thought he was being noble by
keeping it secret. I thought Snape wanted it kept secret because he
was ashamed of it; he was ashamed of sentimentality and showing his
feelings; he was aware that his friends like Lucius Malfoy would
criticize him unmercifully for playing nanny to the child of a
Mudblood and a Muggle-lover, not to mention the child of his worst enemy.

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/184862>:

<< Voldemort's "dispose of your dead with dignity," aside from being
part of the rules of medieval warfare that someone mentioned (he like
to go through the formalities ("We bow to one another, Harry" in the
graveyard) strikes me as a pretense of humanity (like the statements
he makes about admiring courage and being merciful) from someone who
has no idea, not the faintest, how it feels to lose a loved one. You
don't *dispose* of your dead with dignity, not if you have any choice
in the matter. You bury them with honor, you hold a funeral servce,
and you mourn. >>

Part of what was going on is that "dispose of your dead with dignity"
has great alliteration that appealed to LV, Rowling, or both.