CHAPDISC: DH33, The Prince's Tale

Tue Nov 18 17:00:55 UTC 2008

No: HPFGUIDX 184938

> > Discussion Questions:
>
> 1.  Why do you think that JKR (or the narrator) refers to Snape
> as "the Prince" here and in "The Flight of the Prince" in HBP?

I think when Harry realized that Snape was the HBP of the potion
book, he saw a whole other side to Snape - someone who taught Harry
more than all of the teachers at Hogwarts combined. The same thing
happened here - when Harry watched the memories he got to see the
side of Snape that was capable of great love, sacrifice, pain, and
bravery - things he would never have believed of Snape, especially
after watching him kill Dumbledore.
>
> 2. Voldemort gives the Hogwarts staff one hour to "dispose of
[their]
> dead with dignity" and treat the injured while he waits in the
> Forbidden Forest. Assuming that he means what he says, how do you
> think he expects them to "dispose of" the dead?

I think Voldemort is doing a couple of things here - 1) he wants
Harry to realize how many have died "for him" as an incentive to get
Harry to give himself up; and 2) it's part of Voldy's
political 'spin' - being the 'benevolent lord' in allowing them time
to remove their dead from the field, saying 'see, I'm the one who
cares about you, who will protect you and keep you safe if you do
what I want. Potter, on the other hand, hides behind all of you and
lets you die.' It's the same big pile of lies he's been feeding the
WW since he took over the MOM and the Prophet. He couldn't care less
about any of the dead - those fighting for him or against him.
>
> 3.  Lupin and Tonks lie "pale and still and peaceful-looking,
> apparently asleep beneath the dark, enchanted ceiling." This
> description seems to echo that of the dead Dumbledore in HBP--
> "Dumbledore's eyes were closed; but for the strange angle of his
arms
> and legs, he might have been sleeping"—and that of his peacefully
> sleeping portrait. What do you think JKR is saying about death
> through these descriptions? Do they seem to refer to death in
general
> or only to these particular deaths?

Tonks and Lupin (and Doby and Dumbledore and Fred, etc) died for a
noble cause and are now at peace.
>
> 4. Harry blurts out "Dumbledore!" and the door to the stairway
> leading to the headmaster's office opens. When and why do you think
> the password changed and who or what changed it?

I'm sure Snape changed it - I think he wanted and needed Dumbledore
almost as much as Harry did. I'm also guessing that the non-DE
teachers probably refused to go to the Headmaster's office, or were
not allowed to by Snape, and the DEs would think it's a good joke.
>
> 7. Since Lily has no way of knowing about prejudice against Muggle-
> borns in the WW, why do you think she's worried that being a Muggle-
> born might "make a difference"? Given Severus's remark that Lily can
> do "loads" of magic, might the two children be talking about magical
> ability rather than prejudice against Muggle-borns? If not, why
would
> he make that remark in that context?

I think 11 year old Lily was worried about the same things that 11
year old Harry was worried about when he first went to Hogwarts - the
fear of the unknown, the fear of being different, the fear of being
less experienced than the majority of the students who had grown up
in that world. What was really telling about this scene was Snape
claiming that it didn't make a difference. He was trying to reassure
her, but he might also have been trying to make sure that she didn't
get scared and decide not to go to Hogwarts
>
> 8. Severus tells Lily that only wizards who "do really bad stuff"
are
> sent to Azkaban. What does this remark reveal about his sense of
good
> and evil and age nine or ten?

That it's normal. He hasn't really been corrupted by the DE crowd yet.
>
> 10. Why does Petunia call Lily a "freak" (the same word that she
uses
> in SS/PS some twenty years later)? What justification, if any, do
you
> see for her view that sending "weirdos" like Lily and Severus to
> Hogwarts will protect the "normal people"? Do you see any connection
> with the Statute of Secrecy?

Petunia sees her sister going off on a new and exciting adventure
that Petunia isn't 'good enough' for. Petunia also sees her parents'
reaction to the news, which is very positve towards Lily. Petunia
must have wanted to go to Hogwarts really badly to have actually
written to Dumbledore and ask to be admitted. She is jealous,
disappointed, hurt, angry and probably very sad to be losing her
sister. One way to deal with those feelings it to attack the thing we
really want to convince ourselves that we are better off the way we
are. This is a defense mechanism that Petunia has been utilizing her
whole life, and which makes her attitude toward Harry make more
sense - though there is no excuse for the abuse Harry suffered.
>
> 11. How in the world did the Muggle Evanses get through the barrier
> onto Platform 9 3/4 (or is this scene a Flint)?

It never occurred to me that Muggle parents would not be able to get
onto the platform. I'm willing to bet that when the representative
from Hogwarts visits the parents of muggleborns, they are told
exactly how to get onto the platform, and are even given a tour of
the school. As a parent, I would not send my 11 year old off to a
place I'd never seen. We would not have seen this in the story
because this was not part of Harry's reality and really isn't
important to the progression of the plot.
>
> 12. James's words, "Who wants to be in Slytherin? I think I'd leave,
> wouldn't you?" mirror Draco's words about Hufflepuff in SS/PS. What
> do you think that JKR is saying here about James and Draco or House
> prejudice in general? And what's your reaction to James's imaginary
> Sword of Gryffindor, raised in defense of chivalry?

Well, House loyality and, therefore, prejudice, is alive and well,
always has been, always will be except in extreme circumstances, such
as the Battle for Hogwarts where no one was sitting according to
House. Mirroring Draco and James was more, I think, about the way
they had been raised then anything else. They were both the only
children of doting, wealthy parents, well loved and adored talking to
two of the 'lost boys', Harry and Snape.
>
> 13. Why doesn't JKR identify the boy who calls out, "See ya,
> Snivellus"? Which boy do you think it was, and why do you think so?

Because we are dealing with the beginnings of 'group think' here with
James and his Marauders - it wasn't said by an individual, it was
said by the group.
>
> 14 What's the significance, if any, of Lucius Malfoy's patting
> Severus's back? Why include that detail?

He's been accepted - I think it's predictive of what happens later -
Snape finds acceptance for the first time (except for Lily), so he's
going to follow where ever they lead to protect that. Note that the
only thing that could cause Snape to break from this tribe is a
threat to Lily.
>
> 15. Lily's version of the so-called Prank—Severus "sneaking" around
> the Shrieking Shack and being saved by James from "whatever's down
> there" sounds a lot like Sirius's version in PoA except that
everyone
> in the PoA scene knows what's down there. Do you think that Sirius
is
> Lily's source? Why or why not? Why do you think she rejects
> Severus's "theory" (obviously, that Lupin is a werewolf)?

I think Sirius is Lily's source - James 'fancies' her, and Lily and
Snape are friends, so Sirius is trying to build James up and tear
Snape down so Lily will like his friend - it's very adolescent, but
then, they are adolescents. I also think Lily does not want to
believe that her friend Lupin is a werewolf, especially considering
the prejudice and fear of werewolves.
>
> 16. Aside from not wanting to repeat a nine-page scene in detail,
why
> do you think JKR condenses Snape's worst memory to a single
> paragraph? Is the tactic effective? (The relevant paragraph is on
> page 675 of the Scholastic edition and page 542 of the Bloomsbury
> edition.)  Note especially the last line, "Distantly, he heard Snape
> shout at her in his humiliation and his fury, the unforgivable word:
> Mudblood."

I think it's very effective - it shows how upsetting this really was
to Harry, but it also focuses our attention on what is important in
that memory - Snape's use of the word 'mudblood' and, as we learn in
the next memory, how that affected his relationship with Lily.
>
> > 19. We get only a few hints of what Harry is feeling as he
witnesses
> these scenes, and yet he goes from hating Snape and wanting revenge
> against him to publicly defending him and ultimately naming his
> second son after him and Dumbledore. Aside from the shock of Snape's
> death, which scenes do you feel had the most impact on Harry's
change
> of heart and why?

I think the one where Snape produced the Doe Patronus said it all to
Harry.
>
> 20. Why did JKR choose these particular memories for this chapter?
> Why did *Snape* choose them?

JKR and Snape both realized that Harry really needed to understand
the history of Snape's relationship with Lily and how it ended, and
what happened between Snape and Dumbledore - he had to see all of
that to understand and believe Snape, and to accept the information
that Snape needed to give Harry. I think that Snape had those
memories front and center for ages, and was probably planning on
showing them to Harry no matter when he told him about the scar.

Great job Carol - thank you.

Irene