Caring about people

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 184580

Carol earlier:
> > I'm not quite sure that Mundungus qualifies as a sane person,
especially if he's good and drunk or Confunded. Certainly, he has few
if any moral scruples and no particular reason to be loyal to the
Order now that Dumbledore is dead. Maybe Snape paid him good money for
his information. 
> 
> 
> Potioncat:
> I didn't get the idea that Mundungus knew he was giving information
to Snape. Look at the times Hagrid had a drink or two with a
"stranger" in a bar and "gave" information or obtained a rare
creature. In some of those situations, we've figured out who the
stranger was. (Or at least we think we have.)
> 
> It's more likely that Snape identified Mundungus as someone who is
easily tempted into unsavory locations and easily confunded. It 
wouldn't be difficult for Snape to change his appearance --I'm sure he
could manage Polyjuice Potion--or to make Mundungus think he is
someone else. 
> 
> Harry sees Snape confunding Mundungus via the Pensieve, but it was 
Snape's memory he was watching. Had it been Mung's, the image would
probably have been different.
> 
> What really makes less sense, is that Mundungus was allowed so much
information within the Order, given his lack of scruples.
>
Carol responds:
True, we don't see him with Snape when he provides the information,
but we do see them together (in "the Prince's Tale") when snape is
Confunding him. Evidently, they're sitting at the same table in a pub
Harry has never seen before, close enough together that Snape can look
into Mundungus's eyes and speak to him in a low voice. (No doubt he's
also cast Muffliato so they won't be overheard.):

"Now Snape was head to head with Mundungus in an unfamiliar tavern,
Mundungus's face looking curiously blank, Snape frowning in
concentration. "You will suggest (etc.'" (DH Am. ed. 688).

Possibly, Snape cast the Confundus Charm before he sat down with
Mundungus, but we don't know that for sure. He must, in any case, have
either arranged with Mundungus to meet him or known where to find him,
and Mundungus clearly hasn't tried to fight him or the memory would
show that.

As for whose memory it is, it makes no difference. The Pensieve is
objective, and Harry sees both their faces. He's not inside Snape's
mind. Snape is not in disguise (nor is Mundungus). I'm guessing that
they're in a place that they both frequent and where they're both
safe, one a criminal who frequently deals with other crooks, the other
a (supposed) Death Eater whom Harry Potter claims has killed Albus
Dumbledore.

I agree that it was unwise to allow Dung to know the Order's secrets,
but he's a voting member, drunk or sober ("I vote with Sirius") and
Snape (on DD's orders) takes advantage of that.

How credible it is, each reader can judge for him- or herself. It's
just possible that Dung. having been in Azkaban, is so behind the
times that he doesn't even know that Snape is suspected of having
killed Dumbledore (though that seems unlikely since Snape's name would
surely have come up during the meeting when the original plan was
decided upon). More likely, Snape has performed a Memory Charm to make
him forget that particular piece of information, probably just before
Dung reveals his information. (We've seen Kingsley Shacklebolt
secretly and instantly modify Marietta's memory, so we know that it
can be done.) Either of those being the case, Snape would (from Dung's
perspective) simply be playing his double agent role for the Order as
he's always done (and, of course, Dung's never sharp thinking would be
even fuzzier than usual, but a few drops of Veritaserum in his drink
or a bit of Legilimency would give Snape the information he needed).
As I said earlier, Snape's Patronus (which can only be used for good
purposes) might persuade Mundungus that he was on the Order's side,
but Snape would need some way to be sure that Mundungus kept his mouth
shut.  

I'm not by any means saying that's what happened. All I know is that
we see Snape and Mundungus sitting at the same table in a strange
tavern, neither of them in disguise, and no one is interfering with
either of them. Mundungus is already Confunded at that point, so we
don't get to see how it happened.

My suggestion regarding Snape's possibly paying Mundungus good money
for his information was just an afterthought based on Mundungus's
known dishonesty, greed, and lack of scruples. He's a thief and a a
dealer in stolen goods (as well as a coward though that's not relevant
here), and we know that he bribed Umbridge with the locket to keep her
from pressing charges. A man who would offer bribe to a government
official *probably* would not scruple to accept a bribe if he had
information that someone was willing to pay for even if that someone
were a supposed traitor and Death Eater. If he were providing Snape
with information in return for a bribe, he'd certainly keep his mouth
shut. That, of course, would make him the real traitor that some
raders were looking for. Whether he's been bribed or knows that Snape
is on the Order's side, he would keep his mouth shut for his own
protection regarding the information that he's given Snape, but the
Confundus Charm would be necessary to keep him from inadvertently
revealing that Snape suggested the Poly-juiced Potters. He could of
course, be providing the information (and keeping his mouth shut)
under the Imperius Curse--if Harry and McGonagall can use it with
impunity, surely Snape can, too--but if that's the case, why would he
need to be Confunded regarding the Seven Potters plan? Or he could
have been Confunded both times, but why would Portrait!DD need to
mention Confunding Dung if Snape had already been using Confundus to
obtain information? (I would think that information obtained that way
would be rather muddled; Veritaserum would be better.)

Whatever the case, Mundungus is clearly the weakest link in the Order
chain, and Snape is clever enough to get the information from him
somehow. Maybe JKR will enlighten us as to how he did it in the
encyclopedia.

Carol, wondering whether Snape also Confunded Dawlish