Snape and moral courage WAS: Re: The Houses, Finally

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 184624

> Pippin:
> First of all,   I agree Sirius showed  moral courage in defying his
> parents and still more in not giving into despair while he was in
> Azkaban. But his moral courage was based, as he himself says, on his
> belief that he was innocent. 

Alla:

Sure, yes.

Pippin:
> When challenged to bear guilt, he did not do so well. He 
acknowledged
> that as a teen, Lupin sometimes made him ashamed of the way he and
> James treated Snape, and as a grown man he admits that he is not 
proud
> of it. But did he ever  tell Snape that?  He can barely admit it to
> Harry, and even so, he and Lupin are full of excuses.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Oh absolutely.

 
Pippin: 
> Alla opened my eyes to Dumbledore's endless self-justifications.   
But
> it's not just him. 
<SNIP>

Alla:

Yes. I promise something besides agreeing is coming :)
 

Pippin:
> Alla's definition leaves no room for someone with poor  judgment to
> show moral courage, and yet this is a major theme in the books from
> the moment when Neville gets the winning points for attacking the
> Trio. He wasn't doing the right thing. But he thought he was, and
> that's what mattered.
><SNIP>

Alla:

Well, it is not **my** definition, it is the one I agree with, but 
maybe before proceeding further we should clarify which definitions 
we are using, so what is your definition of moral courage that is 
applicable to your argument?

Pippin:
> The Slytherins have their own kind  of courage  even though, as JKR
> hinted, they don't see it in themselves, and  in the general 
prejudice
> that Gryffindors have against Slytherins, it is widely overlooked.
> 
> Certainly it's easy for the reader to overlook. I missed it myself 
for
> more than a year.  But that, IMO, is JKR's point. If you want to 
fight
> prejudice, you have to do more than be aware that prejudice is 
wrong,
> you have to be understand how people can be blinded by it even when
> they don't want to be.


Alla:

So basically what you are saying is that Gryffindors do not have 
enough courage to muster an apology to those whom they wronged and if 
they are guilty they cannot even admit it without self excuses?

Which I do not have much disagreement with, I certainly did not see 
enough in the books to make a generalisation out of it, but certainly 
Sirius did not master an apology to Snape, Dumbledore is full of self 
excuses, etc.

But you seem to be saying that Slytherins do have that sort of 
courage, to admit guilt, etc.

And you seem to be saying that Snape in particular has that sourt of 
courage.

Well, if I understood the previous part of your argument correctlyu, 
that amuses me a lot. Do I even need to say that out loud?

When exactly Snape apologized to Harry? 

And before you ask when Harry apologized to Snape, I believe that 
Harry only owed Snape an apology for his loyalties and not for how he 
treated him as a teacher.

And I believe Harry did apologize for that - by clearing Snape's name 
in front of everybody and by naming his child after Snape, I think 
this was an apology so much more than Snape deserved.

So what I am trying to say, I in general agree with you that 
Gryffindors seem to have trouble acknowledging their mistakes and 
apologising, but boy do I disagree that Slytherins have that sort of 
courage. I mean, maybe they do, but I certainly did not see enough 
examples to agree with it.

Oh sure Snape apologized to Lily, why would he not want to keep 
friendship with the girl he loved? He said the words.

I seem to remember James also not fighting with Snape in front of 
Lily anymore.

But apologising to Lily's son, I think would have required true moral 
courage. Ooops.

JMO,

Alla