Snape and moral courage WAS: Re: The Houses, Finally
montavilla47
montavilla47 at yahoo.com
Wed Oct 15 16:40:52 UTC 2008
No: HPFGUIDX 184659
> Alla:
>
> I just reallly really do not get it. You mean not showing the child
> that he hates him would do Harry a disservice as well?
Montavilla47:
It's a matter of degree, I think. Later in your post you say he
should have been *neutral* in his manner, not showing his
feelings either way. Since I don't think it was possible for
Snape to actually like Harry at first sight, I agree that that
would have been the most proper course.
I just think Snape would have been lying if he had pretended
to like Harry for LIly's sake. And I don't think he was obligated
by any tie to Lily to do that. And, as Magpie said, it would have
been pretty creepy if he had. :)
Alla:
> I mean, let's put one thing straight here - yes, I honestly think
> that if Snape loved Lily, it would be quite good for him to be nice
> to her baby.
>
> BUT the only reason I even said it is because this is what I think
> **could be** good for both Snape and Harry as people.
Montavilla47:
Yes. I quite agree with you there. I think it would have been
very good for Harry and Snape to have worked through their
connection. It wouldn't have been easy, but it would have
probably brought them both a bit more peace and a lot less
angst.
Alla:
> I believe that Snape's obligation as a teacher to be **fair** to
> Harry, and at the very least **be neutral** to him.
Montavilla47:
Again, I agree.
Alla:
> On the top of my head that includes do not attack a child who just
> arrived in the unknown world and not taking points from him **for not
> helping Neville**.
Montavilla47:
Oh dear. I can feel myslf falling into the black hole of justification, and
yet I can't escape. As far as Snape knows, Harry grew up in a family
well acquainted with magic and therefore, this magical world should
not be that unknown. Furthermore, Snape grew up in the Muggle world
as well and *he* read his books before coming to class.
As for why he took one point from Harry for not helping Neville, I've
heard various justifications, but they are all speculation and dependent
on larger theories, so I'll refrain. I imagine, though, that if Harry
weren't already smarting from being targeted at the beginning of
class, he'd have gotten over that pretty quick.
Alla:
> On the top of my head that includes not destroying a potion that
> Harry made.
Montavilla47:
It's unclear from the text whether Snape destroyed the potion or
simply smirked at its destruction. If he did, he was completely
wrong to do so. Either way, he was being extremely childish.
It's revenge on the level of a three-year-old, isn't it?
Alla:
> On the top of my head that includes **not bringing child's dead
> father in the equasion** any time this teacher wants to lecture a
> child.
Montavilla47:
Snape didn't do that "any time." He did it on a few specific
occasions when Harry's behavior struck him as particularly
James-like.
Alla:
> So, what I am trying to say here that if you think that **not doing
> those sorts of things** does Harry a disservice then we just have to
> agree to disagree.
Montavilla47:
I'm not trying to argue that Snape should be treating Harry badly.
What I'm arguing is that Snape treated Harry in the way that reflected
his genuine feelings towards Harry. And that to have pretended to
like Harry when he didn't, because he liked Lily, would have been
dishonest and creepy.
Slughorn may have been trying to buddy up with Harry because of
his "Chosen" status, and using Lily to do so. But even if it wasn't
because of that, even if it were just because Slughorn liked Lily,
doesn't it come off as creepy? I can't imagine that Harry enjoyed
being compared to potions-genius Lily all the time, no matter
how much he liked showing up Draco and Hermione in class.
I think the teacher who handled it best was Lupin, who knew both
Harry and Neville from his association with their parents in the
Order. But, he didn't base his assessment of them as people on
their parents. He didn't try to be friends with any of the students.
Although he did end up giving Harry special tutoring, it was based
on Harry's needs at the time and not because he liked Harry's
parents.
Alla:
> And if not doing those sorts of things means that Snape has to
> pretend, then yeah, I do believe that he is better to be pretending
> because if he is not, then in my view he is not performing as a
> teacher but as a miserable bastard who is taking his misery out on a
> kid who looks just like his succesful rival in school.
Montavilla47:
I agree with the large point. A teacher shouldn't show his feelings
either way. He should not, for example, gift a first-year student
with an expensive present that is normally not allowed, whether
or not that gives an advantage to one's Quidditch team. He should
not target that student for punishment simply because he dislikes
his father. He should not manipulate House points, either to make
that student a pariah with his House mates or to pull off a dramatic
eleventh-hour twist that suddenly awards the House Cup to that
student's group.
My only quibble is your saying that Snape is picking on Harry
because he "looks just like his successful rival in school." James
wasn't simply a successful rival. He was a bully who targeted
Snape from the first day of school and who consistently used
his pals to help him.
Alla:
> Only you see, some people may pity Snape because of that, I don't. I
> think Harry's wellfare comes first AND while I cannot ask Snape to
> erase his feelings, I certainly think he had no right ever showing
> them to Harry.
>
> And if Snape was not doing those sorts of things of course there are
> some things which he was doing truly to protect Harry's life, and I
> would have felt very differently about them.
Montavilla47:
I think that Snape would probably agree with you that Harry's
welfare came first. I think he might disagree with you about what
Harry's welfare consisted of. But, are you saying that his protection
of Harry is canceled out because he didn't treat Harry nicely?
I don't think that's quite fair. He was rude to Harry *and* he
protected Harry. It seems like you want to discount that
protection because of Snape's attitude.
What's more important? How you feel or what you do? I think
this dilemma is what makes Snape so interesting as a
character. If he liked Harry or treated him "neutrally," then
we wouldn't still be talking about the man. If he liked
Harry, then it would be easy for him to protect him and give
up his life to help him.
It's precisely because Snape hates Harry that makes Snape's
choices the *right* ones instead of the *easy* ones.
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