[HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore versus General Iroh SPOILERS for Avatar the Last airbender LONG

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 184724

> Pippin:
> I'm not familiar with the Avatar series either. But, assuming there's
> an ongoing plot, I'll bet my pointy hat this Iroh will turn out to
> know something more than he's saying.  That's what being wise
*means*.


> Alla:
> Anyways back to Iroh and Dumbledore. Since as I said above series are
> complete, and if you are thinking that Iroh will turn out to know
> more than he is telling, well in a sense he is, but believe me, that
> would be totally **UN** Dumbledorish sense. Being wise can mean
> something else than what Dumbledore seems to imply.


The differences between Iroh and Dumbledore- Oh, how I wish Dumbledore could 
have been like Iroh! Yes, Iroh knows things that Prince Zuco doesn't, but 
here in shows the huge difference between Iroh and Dumbledore- is how and 
why they depart information to the younger. Iroh is like the wise parent 
with sex- waiting for the child to ask that first question: mom, where do 
babies come from? To then answer what the child needs for that point in 
development to make use of that information, and then patiently waiting for 
the next stage: asking about sex itself or orgasm or why people do it. Iroh 
doesn't withhold or manipulate information to manipulate Zuco into doing 
anything; instead, he's waiting for Zuco to grow up and ask the right 
questions. There is a huge past with Zuco's family, dark secrets and painful 
truths about the Fire Nation that Iroh doesn't just spill to Zuco. He waits 
for Zuco to grow up, explore who he is, and as Zuco seeks to confront those 
painful truths, then Iroh is happy to fill in the past for him. So, yes, 
Iroh knows a LOT that is more than he originally said, but his purpose in 
not saying it all in the beginning is only to let Zuco tell him when he was 
ready to hear it. Thus, you see a story where Zuco grows up, decides who he 
is, who he wants to be, and Iroh patiently waits while this teen is slow to 
do it, rebellious at times, and hardheaded. Iroh doesn't force Zuco in any 
direction, yet just "trusts" that Zuco will turn out right in the end. 
However long it takes Zuco, Iroh patiently waits it out.

Contrast Dumbledore, who withheld information from Harry. Why? To manipulate 
him down a path. Much different that Iroh's love for Zuco. Dumbledore says 
he didn't tell Harry things at first because he "loved him and didn't want 
to see him hurt", yet as we see the books progress, we see him tell Harry 
information to get him to do a job, the same way we see Dumbledore 
manipulating Snape because he needed him to be in Voldemort's inner circle 
to gain information to bring it back to Dumbledore so he could manipulate 
circumstances even further. There's no trust, no love in what Dumbledore 
ultimately does to Harry. Dumbledore doesn't see a destiny where Harry 
willingly makes the right choice, no, he sees a situation that has to be 
controlled so that Harry and Voldemort will have a show down, and Harry will 
kick Voldemort's butt. There is no end goal for Harry other than for Harry 
to be dead, and Dumbledore doesn't wait for Harry to be ready to hear it, 
instead, he's manipulating information to get Harry to do a job. Harry does 
feel this, he knows it. Rowling shows the times that Harry is ready to hear 
information, and rather than answer the questions, Dumbledore plays coy or 
promises "later", only he never intended there to be a "later."  Dumbledore 
is never the friend, the mentor, that Harry needs in his life. Dumbledore is 
never the wise old man who is ready to admit his mistakes in love in and 
life so that Harry could be a better man for it, but Iroh does.

Dumbledore is never interested in Harry as the man he will grow up to be, as 
Iroh is with Zuco.  Iroh truly is the Wise Old Man, Dumbledore the 
manipulative bastard who controls information and people for his benefit. 
Zuco gets information out of Iroh to grow up and understand the world around 
him and who he will be, and Iroh doesn't control that information to lead 
Zuco down the right path. He just trusts that Zuco will get that path right 
in his own time. Dumbledore is giving information to Harry only to control 
him, force him, down a singular, narrow path. That information is not free, 
not complete, and frankly, Dumbledore doesn't give a care in the world about 
whom Harry will be after the defeat of Voldemort.

Shelley