Hermione WAS :Re: CHAPDISC: DH32, The Elder Wand

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 184785

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Kai Wen Lee <leekaiwen at ...> wrote:
>
> Alla earlier:
> 
> I would find it a perfect feminist moment ... to show that girls, who are supposedly girly 
and only think about boys and makeup, are great fighters too.
> 
> CJ now:
> 
> This puzzles me. Perhaps I'm seeing subtexts that aren't there, but I take the "too" in 
your comment to mean "just like men". Which leaves me scratching my head as to what's 
so feminist about showing women with b*lls. Wouldn't a true feminist moment be to show 
a uniquely feminist perspective providing a better solution than the traditional 
testosterone-inspired, blast-'em-to-kingdom-come Rambo approach?

Montavilla47:
I think the answer to your question depends on what you consider Feminism to be--
and there isn't a single answer to that.  

For many, Feminism was summed up by the idea that women should be able to 
compete with men on a "fair" basis.  (i.e., the barriers created by a male-dominated
society should be removed, and inequities, such as paying women a lesser salary
for equal work, should be abolished.)

But it's never been that simple.  Some Feminists do see a male bias in the very
idea of the competitive marketplace, and noticed that "equal pay for equal work"
doesn't go far enough when a woman needs to consider such things as child 
care and family leave (which men traditionally didn't have to consider since their
wives could fill that function).

And, of course, the Feminine approach to politics, if allowed to dominate, might
well look towards other approaches than the Masculine model of warrior culture.

High-falutin' words.  The bottom line is that there isn't a single mindset that
is Feminism.  Two women might both call themselves Feminists while holding
completely different ideas about whether a particular moment in a book is 
Feminist or not.

Zara saw it as feminist statement that Hermione got to attack Fenrir, who 
is leering and repulsive.  Alla sees as less than feminist, because the very
feminine Lavender is still being shown in the traditional feminist role as 
victim--while Hermione, who is consistently contemptuous about Lavender's
feminity, and there more masculine (or, if you like, "butch),  takes the role of
the hero.

I tend more towards Alla's thinking.  Not because Hermione is all that
masculine, but because Lavender, as a girly-girl, has been treated so 
dismissively throughout the series.  Their history didn't even occur to me
because they don't really have a history. 

CJ:
> OK -- so I'm just a man. But I have difficulty understanding the "women need to be 
more masculine to be feminine" argument. Anyone care to enlighten this neanderthal?

Montavilla47:
I'm not sure either what  "women need to be more masculine to be feminine" 
means.  I don't think that was what Alla was saying.

I will say, however, that being interested in boys and make-up shouldn't 
mean that a girl *shouldn't* be able to defend herself.  Because, let's face it, 
sometimes you have to.  (You know, like when your school gets attacked by a 
pedophilic werewolf.  I'm sure we all can relate to that. <g>)

So, in a young adult book, it's a more feminist message to let girls know
that they can be physically strong *and* girlish, instead of subconsciously 
sending the message that you have to chose between wearing lipstick and 
being safe, or physically strong, or athletic, or independent, or smart.

Because what you don't girls thinking is that they have to give up 
on those things or "boys won't like them."  

Danica McKellar, who used to play Winnie Cooper on "The Wonder Years,"
went on to get her degree in mathematics and she's written a couple books
to encourage girls in mathematics by packaging it in a Seventeen Magazine
style.  In that way, she's trying to erode the stereotype of math as being
something nerdy and essentially masculine.  

I think that was more along the lines of what Alla was referring to.  (Of 
course, I don't want to put words in Alla's mouth and I'm sure she'll
correct me if I'm wrong).  The goal isn't to set up a new stereotype of 
masculine women.  The goal is challenge the stereotypes we have in 
order to allow all kids (boys or girls) to be themselves without their
options being limited by their appearance or personality.

Incidentally, I think we're all forgetting that JKR did provide a moment
like that later on when Molly Weasley kills Bellatrix Lestrange.  But I 
think Lavender saving Hermione from Fenrir would have had more 
impact, for all the reasons others have noted (Lavender's girlishness,
Hermione's ongoing contempt for Lavender, and that Fenrir is 
portrayed as a sexual predator.)  

With Molly and Bellatrix, the moment comes across more as a battle 
between female life choices, with the Mother triumphing over the Scarlet 
Woman.  And what that sends is a message of empowerment of the 
Traditional role of the woman as wife, mother, and homemaker, at the 
expense of a woman who has obviously chosen her career as a Death
Eater over those roles.