HBP post DH look Chapters 1-2.

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 184318

Zara:
Alla, thanks for starting up this thread. I had great fun catching up 
on it this evening! <g>

> Sarah: 
> If it weren't for that one thing, Spinner's End would be in my running
> for the best-conceived Harry Potter chapter.  That is, if you don't
> count the fact that it exists.  Its mere presence is kind of a
> giveaway, if we were supposed to think at the end of HBP that the big
> shocker ending was that Snape was evil.  There was no chapter 2 of GOF
> where Moody talked about how he was actually Barty Jr, no chapter 2 of
> PS/SS where Quirrell explained that Voldemort was on the back of his
> head, etc.

Zara:
I have several thoughts about this. (I think this is probably my second 
favorite chapter in the series, actually...but I prefer another not 
because I see this one as having any flaws, I just love the other one 
more).

The first, is just to comment that I had a perhaps odd reaction to thid 
chapter. This chapter was what convinced me that Snape was Dumbledore's 
spy.  Something about the combination of how he was restrained with 
Bella and perfectly civil with Cissy, and his willingness to take this 
Vow, just gave me vibes that here we were seeing him act, whereas 
elsewhere, we were seeing his true self.

Second, is that Rowling has said that in a way, HBP and DH are almost 
like one book. Viewed in that context...this chapter is setting up the 
desired false expectation to be overturned by "The Prince's Tale".

Third, viewed strictly within HBP...I thought the chapter demonstrated 
Rowling's virtuosity as a storyteller. When Snape showed up in the 
Tower in your first read, were you just waiting for him to blow Albus 
away? I know I was not. I had to go back and reread the end of "The 
Lightning Struck Tower" because I could not believe what I had just 
read. Yes, it was perhaps more surprising for me because of my reaction 
to "Spinner's End" mentioned above, but this is a sentiment I have seen 
in others. Somehow, despite having Snape promise to do it or die, she 
still manages to shock with the ending.

> > Carol:
> > As Pippin said, he knew
> > exactly how she felt. He had been in her position, begging 
Dumbledore
> > to save Lily's life. How could he refuse to help Narcissa, even if 
it
> > meant sacrificing his own life, under those terms?

> Sarah:
> His real vow is to complete what he's set out to do on Lily's behalf,
> not help all the mothers of the world who may bear some universal
> similarity to Lily.  No matter how he might empathize with Narcissa,
> *his* mission still is what it is.  If he fails to help Harry Potter
> carry out what he's been set to do, he fails at life, basically.  If
> he's dead, he probably can't finish his mission.  

Zara:
Using only evidence from HBP, I might have no argument against this 
view. However, with DH in hand, I disagree. We see Snape risk exposure 
or death on at least two occasions I can think of that don't really 
have much to do with his primary missions. (I use the plural, because 
what that is, actually changes...) First, going back as a spy. This is 
useful to Albus and the Order, but I do not see its immediate 
applicability to protecting Harry. If Snape had turned up dead at the 
start of OotP, would he not be the same failure? The second example is 
in the Seven Potters raid in DH, when he takes the risk of trying to 
curse a fellow DE to prevent the killing of Lupin.

For this reason, I think Snape absolutely would do things that might 
endanger him even if they did not contribute to Harry's safety. 

> Sarah:
> He makes the Vow because it's promising the exact same thing to two
> different parties.  There's no additional danger involved on his part
> by making it.  It's a win-win situation.  Unless he died, then
> everyone involved would have some pretty bad repercussions.  But Snape
> is confident that won't happen, so no worries. 

Zara:
I would disagree about the degree to which he is confident. As he hears 
the final clause of the Vow, to which he is about to commit himself, 
his hand twitches in Cissy's. Given how in control he seems throughout 
the scene, that we see any indication at all here of doubt, tells me he 
very much knew he was taking a risk.

> Montavilla47: 
> It's a bit hard to square that, however, with Snape in DH, since he 
seems
> to care not a bit about the Malfoys in that book.  Maybe he's so deep 
in
> his role that he's sacrificed the Malfoys at that point.  Or maybe 
we're 
> just on seeing the caring parts because we're stuck in Harry's POV for
> most of the book.  But it's kind of weird.

Zara:
It's not Harry's POV that is the problem, I would say, it is Snape's 
situation. To see Snape caring about the Malfoys, I think we would need 
to see a scene with just Snape and a Malfoy, but the one time Snape and 
Malfoys are in a room together, they are with Voldemort as well. Snape 
seems not to care about their predicament. He is also unconcerned about 
the callous murder of his colleague, who addresses him in the precise 
words Albus used before he died, and who is then fed to a snake. I'd 
guess he's actually reasonably displeased with both of these 
developments, but powerless to affect either of them.

I suppose Rowling could, if she wanted to stress this, have written 
some way for Snape to secretly help one of the Malfoys, or something of 
that sort. On the other hand, it would be something akin to the 
business of Ginny and the Sword, I'd think, that would require us to 
read between the lines. Draco failed at his task in HBP, yet he and his 
parents are still around...did Snape influence Voldemort in their favor 
in some way, using his position as the man of the hour?