HBP post DH look chapter 5

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 184341

Carol earlier:
> 
> I think this is one of many instances of Hermione or another
character being partially right. Clearly, Tonks' powers *have* been
affected by "shock *or something.*" But Hermione suggests
(psychoanalyzing a character she doesn't know particularly well
somewhat less accurately,IMO, than she similarly analyzes Cho Chang
and Sirius Black), that Tonks is suffering from survivor's guilt and
somehow feels that it's her fault that Sirius died. That suggestion is
a red herring (and a rather weak one since it isn't reinforced by any
evidence).
> <SNIP>
> 
> 
> Alla:
> Is it a red herring though?  I am really not sure one way or another.
> 
> I mean, there is no question in my mind that Tonks is affected by
Lupin's love. But I mean, shock, isn't it a bit too strong? 

Carol responds:

That's why I emphasized "or something." IOW, something that may or may
not be shock caused her to lose her powers. And it can't have anything
to do with Sirius because she shows up happy and pink-haired at King's
Cross station several about two weeks after his death. (I didn't check
the time frame, but it's the day that Harry returns to the Dursleys,
presumably June 30.) Hermione is clearly wrong about the survivor's
guilt, but right that shock "or something" has caused Tonks to lose
that particular power. It doesn't occur to her that Tonks could be
suffering because Lupin refuses to marry her. (Mrs. Weasley knows
what's wrong with "dear Tonks," though!)

Alla:
What I am 
> trying to say is not that I am rejecting the idea for her being 
affected of her beloved death or wound or anything like that, but what
exactly does she have to be in shock about Lupin at the beginning of
HBP? She can be worried, yes, but shocked?

Carol:
I agree that it's not a shock. That's why I emphasized "or something."
Personally, I'd call what she's suffering disappointment followed by
depression. Other people may have different labels for it. As I said
in another post, I think that being a Metamorphmagus is connected in
her mind with happiness. It's rather like a brilliant, naturally
talented violinist being either unwilling to play or actually losing
her ability to play because the man she loves won't marry her. 

Alla:
> 
> Well, yes, of course. Remember I am not rejecting her being worried 
> over Lupin, it is after all canon, what I am wondering is whether 
> survivor's guilt is here or not at all?

Carol:
I don't see any survivor's guilt at King's Cross, where she's her
normal self. Surely, we would have seen it then if that's what she was
feeling. Also, of course, it's in no way her fault that Sirius died
and she didn't. (He's the one who recklessly fought Bellatrix on the
dais with his back to the veil.) There's really no cause for
survivor's guilt. Hermione seems to be snatching at straws. True, her
eyes fill with tears when Harry mentions Sirius, but it's just
coincidence. Her mind is on Lupin, fearing that he's been hurt. When
Harry apologizes, thinking that she's mourning Sirius (he seems to
have forgotten the survivor's guilt hypothesis), her reaction is
"What?" and a blank look as if she hadn't heard him (HBP Am. ed. 466).

Alla: 
> Because it seems to me that Hermione hints that Tonks has same thing
as Harry has, and if Tonks does not have that, it sort of makes no
sense to me as relates to Harry's story.
> 
> Because if the point here is to say that Hermione is wrong, well, 
then it is as if those words have no meaning for Harry either IMO.

Carol:
I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Harry's survivor's guilt has
been shifted to Snape, or rather, he's placed the blame for Sirius
Black's death on Snape. I don't think we see him suffering from
survivor's guilt in HBP except briefly when he and DD return to
Hogwarts from the cave and he sees the Dark Mark. At that point he
thinks that it will be his fault, again, if any of his friends has
died. But he never really accepts that explanation for Tonks's
behavior. When Hermione suggests that Tonks thinks it's her fault that
Sirius died, Harry says in spite of his own reluctance to talk about
Sirius, "How does she work that one out?" He also says in response to
Hermione's remark that Tonks's magical powers must have been affected
by "shock, or something" that he didn't know that could happen.
Hermione mentions depression, which I think is nearer the mark, but
the conversation is cut off (95).
> 
Carol earlier:
> <SNIP>
> Someone (Hermione?) points out that Tonks didn't know Sirius all
that well. He was some fifteen years older than she was, closer to
Andromeda's age than Nymphadora's, and he was in prison for twelve
years when she was a child and adolescent, and in hiding for two years
after that (PoA and GoF). She may have seen him occasionally when she
was a small child, but she essentially met him for the first time when
she joined the Order between the end of GoF and the beginning of PoA.
She would have met Lupin at the same time, but it was the kindly,
low-key werewolf and not the rash and sometimes surly ex-prisoner that
she fell in love with.
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> In my mind, the amount of time they knew each other (Tonks and 
Sirius) is more than enough to be upset about the death of family
member. But that's not the only thing Hermione suggests, is it not?

Carol: 

Actually, it's Ron who points out that they didn't know each other
very well. My mistake. Sorry. I'm sure she was sad about Sirius's
death, but he wouldn't seem like a cousin to her given the age
difference and I don't think her grief was profound or lasting. If she
had been depressed in the last chapter of OoP and continued to be
depressed in HBP, I'd think that Sirius had something to do with it.
Tonks is her normal self at the end of OoP, after Sirius's death:

"Tonks stood just behind [Mad-eye], her bright bubble-gum pink hair
gleaming in the sunlight filtering through the . . . ceiling, wearing
heavily patched jeans and a bright purple T-shirt bearing the legend
THE WEIRD SISTERS" (OoP Am. ed. 867). She takes part in the
conversation with the Dursleys, hinting at what will happen if the
Order finds out that the Dursleys have beeen horrible to Harry (869).
Interestingly, Lupin, who is standing next to her (867), immediately
backs her up (869).

This cheerful, in-character, brightly dressed self is in marked
contrast to the mouse-haired, mopey Tonks at the beginning of HBP,
which takes place only about two weeks later. The Tonks sitting at
Mrs. Weasley's table has a pale face and mousy brown hair. Harry
thinks she looks ill (HBP 82). Even Ron comments that she looks like
Moaning Myrtle (94). Sirius's death did not change her appearance or
behavior, as indicated by that scene at King's Cross, but something
has happened between the confrontation with the Dursleys and Harry's
return to the Weasleys' at the beginning of HBP to cause that change
in her. That it relates to Lupin follows from Mrs. Weasley's dinner
invitation to Tonks, in which she mentions Lupin(82).
Tonks thanks Mrs. Weasley for the "tea and sympathy," which indicates
that she's been sharing her disappointment with Mrs. Weasley, who in
turn gives Lupin an annoyed glance when she mentions that Tonks is
planning to have Christmas dinner alone (340). We're given plenty of
hints along with the red herrings, as usual for any mystery in the
books, but the hints only become clear after we've read the
explanation in the hospital-wing chapter. (BTW, Ginny provides another
red herring--she thinks that Mrs. W. keeps inviting Tonks to dinner in
hopes that Bill will fall for Tonks (94), which explains Harry's
reaction to Mrs. W's annoyed glance at Lupin.) And Lupin is put on the
spot when Harry asks about Tonks's changed Patronus. He takes his time
chewing his food before saying lamely, "Sometimes . . . a great shock
. . . an emotional upheaval . . ." (340). His feeble and incomplete
explanation paves the way for Snape's doe Patronus in HBP, but makes
it look as if the "emotional upheaval" is caused by Sirius's death.
Harry follows up by describing the changed Patronus (big with four
legs) and starts to ask whether it could be Padfoot, but is cut off
(naturally!) before he can ask the question by Percy's arrival with
Scrimgeour. The changed Patronus, noted by Snape on the first day of
school, is our first real clue to the cause of Tonks's malady, but we
don't learn till much later what Mrs. Weasley and Snape (of all
people) have already figured out. It's not survivor's guilt or
mourning for Sirius; it's Lupin's rejection (or, alternatively, his
refusal to do what they both want because he thinks it would be wrong
to subject her to the burden of marriage to him).

Alla:
> She is talking about survivor's guilt and you can have it about the 
> person you are unrelated to, especially if she feels that as law 
> enforcement member, she failed to save somebody. She did not fail of 
> course, but it is just sounds very plausible and logical to me.

Carol responds:
Tonks isn't talking about survivor's guilt. That's just Hermione's
guess as to what's wrong. We don't hear Tonks talking about it. We
just know that she's mopey and depressed; she's apparently lost or
simply isn't using her Metamorphmagus powers; her Patronus has
changed; she thanks Molly for the tea and sympathy (an odd remark if
she's been talking to Molly about survivor's guilt); she refuses
invitations to dinner at the Weasleys' when she knows that Lupin will
be there; and she's desperately worried about Lupin's safety. We get
the explanation for everything in the hospital-wing scene.

Alla: 
> And you said it yourself; she met Lupin as an adult at the same
time. She fell in love with him yes, but again – what shock?

Carol:
No shock, just disappointment and depression. Her Patronus changes for
the same reason that she (apparently) loses her Metamorphmagus powers.
Of course, if there *is* a shock, it could be Lupin's rejection of her
marriage proposal! But Hermione says, "a shock, or something" and
Lupin says a shock or emotional upheaval, so maybe shock, per se,
isn't necessary. Hermione, BTW, is not giving information she found in
a book. She's hypothesizing. "I didn't know that could happen," says
Harry with regard to the lost powers. "Nor did I," Hermione responds. 
"But I suppose if you're really depressed. . ." (95).

Hermione says that Lupin has "tried to talk [Tonks] round," but that
only indicates that Hermione has seen Lupin talking to Tonks and
apparently trying to comfort her not that Tonks herself has been
talking about survivor's guilt, a hypothesis that is never supported,
and which is belied by Tonks' cheerful, normal appearance and behavior
at King's Cross.

Carol, who thinks that Tonks' hair and Patronus are just another
mystery, misinterpreted by HRH, just as they misinterpreted Snape's
and Quirrell's behavior in SS/PS