HBP Chapters 27 - 30 post DH look

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 184464

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> Carol:
> <HUGE SNIP>
> But giggle? Yes, DD will be pulling strings behind the scenes as a
> portrait with a most unusual amount of DD's brains and personailty
> left behind in him. But Harry's loss is devastating. 
> <SNIP of the whole post>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Giggle perhaps was a wrong word. I should have said sarcastic laugh.
> 
> I certainly agree that Harry *thinks* his loss is devastating. I
just do not agree with Harry on that. I know he loved Dumbledoree, but
Harry would have fallen for any father figure who showed him some
affection, IMO.
> 
> I think he would have been much better off without Dumbledore
entering his life. Yes, I know - this would have beem another story, I
am talking about them as if they were real people.
>
Carol responds:
They do seem like real people, don't they? But real people wouldn't
find themselves in such a situation. The closest parallels I can think
of are King Arthur and Oedipus. There's  also the baby Jesus, whom
Herod was trying to kill (BTW, I've never seen historical evidence for
the Slaughter of the Innocents, which many people treat as a
historical fact), but he (baby Jesus) remained with Mary and Joseph
rather than being placed in another family. Maybe you can think of a
real-life scenario that would come close, minus the magic, but I can
only think of the so-called Princes in the Tower, who were either
killed or hidden so well that no one could find them. If Perkin
Warbeck had proved himself to be the real Richard Duke of York and
defeated Henry VII to become king of England, it would be roughly
comparable, but there's no Dumbledore in the picture unless it's the
thirty-year-old Richard III, and some people would place him in the
role of Voldemort.) Once in a while, a child really is endangered by a
megalomaniac who views him as a threat, but that child is seldom taken
in hand by a wise old mentor who hides him among Muggles/peasants/
ordinary people who don't know or can't reveal his secret, and neither
the child nor the old mentor ever have magical powers in RL (leaving
God and the baby Jesus out of the discussion). So we're back to Merlin
and the future King Arthur as the closest parallel.

At any rate, what would have happened if Dumbledore hadn't entered
Harry's life, assuming that Voldemort has heard part of the Prophecy
and is specifically targeting Harry? (Without the Prophecy and Snape's
information, Harry is merely in "mortal peril" like everyone else
associated with the Order or in any way opposed to LV's agenda, but
not entitled to Dumbledore's special protection. And DD does try to
protect him, sending the Potters into hiding and suggesting the
Fidelius Charm even before Harry has any special powers to distinguish
him from any other Wizarding child.)

What was Dumbledore to do after Harry's parents were killed, assuming
that he really believed Harry to be "the one with the power to
vanquish the Dark Lord" and knew about the soul bit (which, of course,
Harry didn't have yet when DD first suggested the Fidelius Charm)? He
couldn't risk having Sirius Black claim him since he appeared to be a
Death Eater and the betrayer of the Potters. Even if Sirius hadn't
gone after Peter and been arrested for (supposedly) killing Peter and
twelve Muggles, landing himself in Azkaban, and could somehow have
proved to DD that Wormtail, not he, had betrayed the Potters, the DEs
would be after both him and Harry and there could be no Lily-based
Love magic to protect Harry. (Imagine restless Sirius hiding, out of
action, for sixteen years under a Fidelius Charm, unable even to leave
the house in dog form until Harry was old enough to go to Hogwarts
because Harry would be left unguarded?) Better for DD to place Harry
with his Muggle relatives, hidden from anyone in the WW (except an
occasional Order member like Mrs. Figg or Dedalus Diggle) with the
blood protection preventing any serious injury, at least from
Voldemort and his minions, while he was in that house? (Sure, DD could
and perhaps should have checked up on him, but I think he trusted that
the Love magic and Petunia's promise would prevent serious harm, as
would Harry's accidental magic.)

Should Dumbledore have treated Harry like everyone else and made sure
that he and his friends didn't endanger themselves by wandering the
halls at night, entering forbidden forests and corridors and breaking
rules? Should he have withheld the Invisibility Cloak (rightfully
Harry's) until Harry was older and wiser? Should he (and could he)
have kept him out of the TWT when the age line failed to do the job?
How could Harry have learned what he would be up against with
Voldemort and Dark magic without the experiences of the first four
books? And when DD decides to protect him through Occlumency lessons
and withholding information, the experiment backfires. In HBP, of
course, the excursions into the Pensieve are necessary because LV is
back, he will target Harry at some point, and only Harry has the scar
connection that will enable him to find the Horcruxes and the ability
to speak Parseltongue to open some of them. (I think that DD
understands it but doesn't speak it.) The cave is a terrible place,
but it, too, prepares Harry for what's to come, and it serves as the
test that shows both Harry and DD that Harry is ready to take over
from the dying Dumbledore. Without Harry, whose presence doesn't
register in the boat, Dumbledore would have died like Regulus in the
cave ("One alone could not have done it"). DD could not have taken
Snape, whose presence *would* register, nor could Harry have
accomplished the task alone. And imagine Harry (or Ron or Hermione)
having to drink the horrible potion instead of Dumbledore.

Let's see. No Dumbledore in Harry's life. Perhaps he's killed early on
and the DEs take over Hogwarts before Harry even enters. Perhaps he
ignores the Prophecy, treating Harry like any other student, or
protecting him without exposing him to lessons and dangers. (Even a
bullying stepfamily and unfair teachers are lessons.) Sure, there's
Quidditch and dangerous classes like COMC, but those classes don't
appear to be adequate preparation for the other students (especially
with a curse on the DADA class).

While Dumbledore is not my favorite character, and while I do actually
wonder whether he might have sacrificed Horcrux!Harry for the greater
good if he hadn't actually believed him to be the Chosen One, I do
think that he grew to love Harry and was greatly relieved that he
might not have to die thanks to the shared drop of blood. Whether he
genuinely cared about his students, other than in terms of the greater
good, it's hard to say. I think he counted on Snape and the extra
protections that he (DD) had placed on the castle to keep Draco in
line, and Draco did stop taking reckless desperation measures after
his talk with Snape (the necklace incident had already happened and
the poisoned mead was already in Slughorn's hands, but Draco's focus
returned to the Vanishing Cabinet after that point). And DD did set up
a guard of Order members before he left with Harry for the cave.

What else could DD have done, aside from giving people (including
Harry and Snape) more information? He couldn't tell Harry the truth
about Snape without breaking his word. (But, yes, he should have let
him know exactly why he needed, or DD thought he needed, those
Occlumency lessons!)

Carol, happy that Dumbledore didn't develop into the person he would
have been if he and Grindelwald had succeeded in their scheme for
world domination!