HBP chapters 24-26 Post DH look

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 184466


> Carol again:
> Possibly. But the Prophecy states that *Harry* will have "the power
> that the Dark Lord knows not" (which DD would deduce is Love),

Pippin:
The prophecy doesn't state anything about *Harry* at all. It states
that the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord will have the
power that the dark lord knows not. Dumbledore, who already believes
in the power of love magic, would not need a prophecy to tell him that. 

The reader knows that Harry is meant because he is the topic of the
books, and we believe the prophecy must come true because we trust its
maker, JKR. Dumbledore, however has no reason to believe that just
because one part of the prophecy came true, all the others must come
true also. Hs's not such a wishful thinker as that.

But Dumbledore  would already know, like Diary!Riddle, that a loving
sacrifice would make a powerful countercurse. He would be able to
guess how Lily had died from the simple fact of Harry's survival. And
he believed that this protection would remain with Harry for all time,
though the prophecy does not say so. 

"If there is one thing Voldemort cannot understand, it is love. He
didn't realize that love as powerful as your mother's leaves its own
mark. Not a scar, no visible sign...to have been loved so deeply, even
though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection
for ever. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed and ambition, sharing his
soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason."


> Pippin earlier: 
> > I am not sure why you conclude that Dumbledore was giving
> extraordinary protection to the Potters, protection that other
people would not get if Dumbledore knew for certain that they were
being hunted by Voldemort himself.   There is no reason to think that
the Order's headquarters in VWI wasn't protected by the secret-keeper
 spell along with other safe houses just as in VW2. Probably an Auror
> was assigned to shadow the Muggle Prime Minister, too. 
> 
> Carol:
> I disagree. Only the Potters were protected by a Fidelius Charm,
which DD suggested to them alone because of Snape's request. He would
have been the Secret Keeper himself if they had allowed it. 

Pippin:
::boggles:: And James and Lily were okay with that? They didn't mind
if Dumbledore hung their friends and companions in the Order out to
dry, not for the greater good, but because he couldn't be bothered?
And yet James still respected him enough to lend him his most precious
possession, and Lily refused to believe he had ever had anything to do
with Grindelwald? 

I don't buy it.

Carol:
 And if a Fidelius Charm had been placed on
> the original Order HQ, the Order could have continued to use it when
> they re-formed between GoF and OoP, instead of needing new HQ at 12
> GP. 

Pippin:
The forgotten Marauder strikes again <g>. Needless to say,  using a
hideout that Peter  had access to wouldn't be a good idea, even with
charms to keep him out. 


> Carol:
> I'm not sure what your point is. Surely, all those Order members
> weren't drawn out of the safety of homes protected by the Fidelius
> Charm. 

Pippin:
Why not? People were not being ambushed at Order Headquarters or in
secret-keeper protected locations -- that would have convinced even
James that there was a spy. But people can't carry out  missions for
the Order and hide at the same time. Look at JKR's prequel bit.  A
secret-keeper protected refuge wouldn't have saved James and Sirius if
one of the DE's chasing them had turned out to be Voldemort. They'd
never have reached it alive.

I think I'm finally beginning to understand something. People must
unconsciously expect JKR to follow the  rules of popular heroic
fantasy: good guys don't die unless

a) They're red shirts
b) They've done something unworthy and must make amends
c) They're heroically saving another more important character
d) They've been betrayed

>From our point of view, the McKinnons and so on are red shirts, but
they were James' and Lily's friends, so according to rule d) they must
have been betrayed. And so they were, by Peter. But he's not a very
impressive villain, so I guess you'd like it to be Dumbledore instead.

But JKR thinks she's writing a war story, and  kills characters off
when she's finished with 'em just to show that war is hell. Alas.

Carol:
 If the SK had been Dumbledore, they would have
> been safe.

Pippin:
Until Voldemort tricked Dumbledore into revealing the secret, or had
Peter kidnap Harry, or used the Imperius curse to make someone else do
it, or made them think that Sirius was in danger and they had to go
rescue him, and so forth...there are lots of ways to get around it if
you think about it.

Carol:
 The idea that a Prophecy existed did, however, give them
> hope that *Harry* would save them, and the few who fought at the end
> did so because of Harry. 

Pippin:
That's chicken-or-the-egg. Did they believe in Harry because of a
prophecy they'd never heard, or did they believe in a prophecy they'd
never heard because they believed in Harry? Scrimgeour thinks it's the
latter -- he didn't care beans about the prophecy, but he knew people
would rally around Harry. Otherwise, he could have  spun  the alleged
prophecy to support the ministry.

Pippin