[HPforGrownups] Re: The Role of Religion in the Potterverse was Magical Latin

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 186159

> No.Limberger responds:
> All world religions share similar concepts (not necessarily the same
> concepts between all religions), but each religion has its own unique 
> concepts.  In none of
> my posts have I denied that JKR is a Christian. In fact, I believe I 
> clearly
> acknowledged this fact  in an earlier post.  If not, I am doing so here. 
> Where I disagree is the
> notion that  JKR sat down one day and said, "I'm going to write a set of 
> fantasy novels
> based upon Christianity."

Shelley:
Ok, consciously, or subconsciously??? And all that teeters on what you call 
"based upon Christianity". Did she intend to write a "preachy novel about 
Christ"- clearly we all would agree NO with you. But, did she intend from 
the beginning that Harry would be the sacrificial lamb of the Wizard World- 
there I would have to say YES, she did. She planned from the beginning Harry 
to have a part of Voldemort in him, so that he would need to be killed to 
save everyone else. I think she planned that Harry would need to sacrifice 
himself. No other religion, save Christianity, has some Savior dying and 
then raising from the dead. She doesn't have to say outright that Harry is a 
type of Christ figure for the novel to be "based upon Christian themes"- 
that self-sacrificing act to die to save others, only to live again. I think 
clearly she did set out to write a novel based upon Christianity (or that 
die-and-live-again theme). Books 1-6 were so building up to this theme that 
many people correctly guessed that Harry would die to save the wizarding 
world, even before book 7 was released.

No.Limberger:
> Many Christians have written or created works that have
> absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.  To assume that just because 
> an author is
> Christian automatically implies that all written works are subsequently 
> Christian is
> not supported  unless there is a significant amount of Christian material 
> within the works
> themselves.

Here again, I disagree strongly with your definition- "significant amount of 
Christian material within to be considered a Christian work". To me, it's 
not the "amount of material" at all, but the substance of that material. The 
climax of this series is a Christ-like self sacrifice- that makes the book 
pretty "Christian" in nature to me. It's a Christian world-view that counts, 
not how many times or how strongly you bash people over the head with that 
theme.

No.Limberger:
>   In the case of JKR and her artwork called Harry Potter,
> I find no convincing evidence to suggest that this artwork was intended 
> for
> a Christian-only  audience.

A straw man to defeat! No one has ever made the case (not that I have read, 
but I could be wrong) that Rowling intended her audience to be 
Christian-only. She went to a secular publisher, didn't market this through 
churches or ever court a church's opinion on this work. It's clear that her 
intended audience was far beyond any faith, since from the beginning, she 
sold her books on an open market. Saying that Rowling intended to have a 
Christian-only audience is such a bogus statement- any one of us can easily 
defeat that premise in a heartbeat.

No.Limberger:
>   How any one person chooses to perceive that art is entirely up to the 
> individual.

Shelley:
Again, true up to a point. Clearly, we can all identify the same main themes 
of Harry Potter, including acknowledging that Harry had to die (as a 
Horcrux) to end Voldemort's soul part that was accidentally placed within 
him, if Voldemort was to be defeated in the end. Whether or not you want to 
argue this is a Christ-like sacrifice to really up to you, but I have to 
wonder what's the motivation of trying to artificially separate out any 
Christian themes from this work? Does it make you feel better about reading 
it if you don't feel that you are reading a work which has Christian 
influence in it? Because, on another thread of Dumbledore's gayness, that 
was an issue for some- that they would not want to read a book if a gay man 
was one of the main characters- that their individual bias causes them to 
exclude from their personal libraries any work which make them personally 
uncomfortable. I'm perfectly OK if someone said they didn't want to think of 
Harry Potter as containing any Christian elements because they have a strong 
bias against Christianity in general. I respect that kind of honest 
admission of personal bias. What I don't really respect is people trying to 
paint a canvas as purple because they personally really hate the color 
yellow, and can't stand for yellow to be in anything considered to be their 
"favorite works", so they therefore argue that it's not yellow everyone else 
sees, but some other shade. I just don't see how you can remove and separate 
out any "Christian themes" presented in this series and argue that it's not 
a Christian influence at all.

Shelley